There’s more news and less comprehension today than any historical period that didn’t involve literal witch trials, and trying to stay on top of it all can feel like playing a game of telephone with 30 people, except everyone’s speaking at the same time and like a third of them are openly racist for some reason. From Cracked co-founder Jack O’Brien, THE DAILY ZEITGEIST is stepping into that fray with some of the funniest and smartest comedic and journalistic minds around. Jack and co-host Miles Gray spend up to an hour every weekday sorting through the events and stories driving the headlines, to help you find the signal in the noise, with a few laughs thrown in for free.
https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-the-daily-zeitgeist-28516718/
episode 2: Extra! Extra! Ouija’ll About It!10.28.25
In episode 1954, Jack and Miles are joined by host of Otherworld, Jack Wagner, to discuss… Ouija Episodes, The Power Of The Unconscious Mind and more!
LISTEN: Distant Land by Madlib
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
00:05
Speaker 1
Jack Get in your paranormal studies, have you encountered any
00:09
Matilda's any people with Matilda powers? Oh?
00:13
Speaker 2
That is a great question. I mean there's been a
00:15
Matilda adjacent people. But honestly, if I heard about Matilda,
00:20
if somebody came to me claiming to be Matilda, I
00:22
think I'd be skeptical of them right off the bat.
00:24
Speaker 1
Yeah, right, right right? Read so good that you can
00:28
move things with your mind? Come on, exactly, chocolate cake
00:33
thrown at your teacher or whatever? That didn't you do that? Yeah?
00:38
I mean there's a I know that somebody made it
00:40
was forced to eat a cake. She's like starts out
00:43
with the standard gateway crime of spilling water on this
00:47
on her teacher, but then it moves on to chocolate
00:50
cake and then writing spooky message on the board with
00:53
her brain. That's a good one.
00:56
Speaker 2
I mean that cake scene was supposed to be torturous,
00:59
but I feel like I can handle it.
01:00
Speaker 3
I know, one of the best looking cakes in cinema history.
01:04
Speaker 1
Did they make it look so good? It's delicious? I
01:07
don't know.
01:08
Speaker 3
I feel like just food and movies always looks good,
01:11
like the when in Jurassic Park when they get back into.
01:13
Speaker 1
The visitors Jello, all of it, the ice ice cream,
01:18
because it's melty ice cream too. Just oh, it's just
01:22
the way they're fucking their way.
01:24
Speaker 3
Yeah yeah, And I think what those kids are gone
01:27
for like fucking ten hours at that point, right, But anyway,
01:33
that's mine.
01:34
Speaker 1
I'm about to eat, doctor Grant. I was so hungry
01:38
out there, Bro, you were gone for three hours. Tell
01:42
you one bit of food that didn't look like it
01:43
tastes good. In Jurassic Park, Samuel L. Jackson, that guy's
01:47
smoking so much. I bet I bet the dinosaurs spit
01:50
him right out. I think you're gonna say that pile
01:52
of shit. Nobody was checking for that. Hello the Internet,
02:06
and welcome to season four to twelve, Episode two of
02:09
Didi's Eight Guys. This is a production of iHeart Radio's
02:13
the podcast where you take a deep dive into america
02:15
Shared consciousness, and this week that shared consciousness got cobwebs
02:19
in it. The spookiest thing that anything can have. Talking
02:22
about virgins, talking about virgins, Yo, we light a candle
02:26
if you're a virgin in Salem. Talking about yesterday's episode
02:29
in hocus Pocus, how everybody keeps roasting that fourteen year
02:33
old boy for being a virgin, including his six year
02:36
old sister. I have not seen that movie in a while. Apparently,
02:40
Oh yeah, I hadn't either. I saw when I was
02:43
a kid, and I was just like getting slammed as
02:44
a fourteen year old as a fold for being a
02:46
virgin by children like and then by a ghost of
02:51
a Puritan.
02:53
Speaker 3
Yeah.
02:53
Speaker 1
I think it's weird that this guy hasn't fucked yet.
02:58
Speaker 2
Famously, the Puritans would not think that, hence the name.
03:01
Speaker 1
That's right, although there is a I talked about this episode,
03:05
but there is a school of thought that thinks that
03:07
the Puritans had so many rules about not having sex
03:12
because they were fucking so much that eyewitnesses like the
03:16
obvious he's doing fucking public anymore. Yes, that's funny.
03:21
Speaker 3
That Puritan's name Factory Binks. I was like, what a
03:25
fucking dumb name, dude.
03:26
Speaker 1
Oh come on, man, they ate with that. Factory Binks
03:29
is like fucking that's like George Lucas level bullshit name.
03:32
Speaker 3
I forgot to I forgot to bring this up with
03:34
the actor who plays the kid Max. I think the
03:38
main kid he's now just like in a like he's
03:40
just like a weed grow did. Yeah, we'd get hell yeah, yeah.
03:43
Speaker 2
I mean, it's better than the fate of a lot
03:45
of nineties actors where they're yeah yeah, shot up with
03:49
gas station or something. That's like, I feel like half
03:52
of the people I saw in movies that I liked
03:55
as a kid.
03:55
Speaker 1
And want to oh starters like half the Power Rangers.
04:02
You know, you don't know. We could open that wikuld
04:03
be up and see it written in the past tense,
04:06
you know what I mean. No, yeah, by the way,
04:09
it says he was an actor, and I'm like, uh oh,
04:12
but he's fully on weed dude company off the ground exactly.
04:17
Speaker 2
No disrespect. He's probably making so much more money in
04:21
the week.
04:21
Speaker 1
I don't know. Basically, I'm looking. I was, I was,
04:23
I was trolling his I g did not seem that popping. Yeah, okay, well,
04:28
at least I'm hoping he's happy. The update was that
04:31
he still keeps in touch with some of the people
04:32
who were in Hocus Pocus with him. That's like one
04:35
of the And here's what we know of him now
04:38
because they kill it at the cons. They go do signings. Yeah, yeah,
04:41
they want they want to meet him.
04:42
Speaker 2
Here's something about hocus Pocus, I could share by all means,
04:46
I remember being very attracted to Sarah Jessica Parker's character
04:50
in it when I was a kid.
04:51
Speaker 1
What's wrong with you? Why? What? What was going on?
04:54
Speaker 2
But I've never had that experience with any other Sarah
04:57
Jessica Parker role. Yeah, And I don't even know if
05:00
I realized it was her, you know what I'm saying.
05:02
Speaker 3
It was the thicker eyebrows. You know what I mean,
05:05
maybe you didn't have as thick an eyebrow.
05:08
Speaker 1
Yeah, that was gonna be my guess to the thicker eyebrows.
05:11
Speaker 2
It's like specifically the witch version of her and no
05:14
other role.
05:15
Speaker 1
I mean, I followed her her body of work for
05:17
many years. It's one of her better performances. Like she
05:21
she gives a great performance. She fully embodies that kind
05:24
of dizzy, silly, off balance character. Yes, yeah, yeah, we have.
05:28
Do people give their flowers a Kathya Gemie enough? Not nearly?
05:33
So she's doing like a weird mouth thing in that
05:35
one where she like only has control of one side
05:38
of her mouth. Never explained, just a bit of business
05:40
for herself to be doing.
05:42
Speaker 2
Gmmis insane. Pol I don't know if you guys have
05:45
IMDb in front of you, or if you just have encyclopedic.
05:48
Speaker 1
No again, she was his sister. Aye, that's killed it, sister.
05:52
Never forget Kathy a Gmians. But yeah, there's something about
05:57
Sarah Jesaca Parker's makeup, even though like it's pretty. It's
06:00
not like she's wearing prosthetics or anything. But I watched
06:03
it with my family yesterday and my wife, who's like
06:07
very IMDb brained and like has like facial recognition technology
06:12
and her brain was surprised that it was Sara Jessica Parker. Yeah,
06:16
it never happens. Can't catch her sleeping on. It's the
06:19
darker eye makeup and eyebrows, I'm telling you. Anyways, it
06:22
is Tuesday, October twenty eighth, twenty twenty five. Yeah, three
06:26
days from the spookiest day of the year. Oh hell
06:29
yeah I do. But of course what are we celebrating.
06:31
Speaker 3
Oh, it's also a National first Responder's Day, National Internal
06:34
Medicine Day, Wow, very very healthy, real safety. And also
06:38
National Chocolate Day that feels more in line with the
06:40
week of Halloween. It's National Chocolate Day. That feels there's
06:44
so many there's like forty National Chocolate Day. I was
06:46
gonna say, I feel like there's a lot too many. Yeah,
06:49
to tie those things together. A block from where I'm
06:51
recording is a place that I think is very strange.
06:56
It's a dispensary. It has dispensary, but it's a chocolate dispensary.
06:59
Speaker 1
They do not really.
07:01
Speaker 3
Oh yeah, dispensary. I know what you're talking about. It
07:03
it's and it's a place. I think we brought it
07:06
up on the show to where before you have been
07:09
on Jack. But like the people in there, like I've
07:12
heard the owner really hates that people think there's weed
07:15
in there, even though it's a real type.
07:17
Speaker 2
Of guy to be to start business Los Angeles and
07:21
your business has dispensary on it, It's like, why.
07:25
Speaker 1
Would you are the edibles? I mean, yes, they're all edible.
07:30
Speaker 2
It's like the guy starts a root beer store and
07:33
the scientist a big neon sign says beer cold to
07:35
be thinking there's Pacifico's here, what the yeah?
07:42
Speaker 1
But indeed it's just part of the Like chocolate is
07:45
a drug kind of loved in the late nineties where
07:50
it's like I'm a chocoholic. I can't stop I.
07:52
Speaker 3
Think it's meant to just be like very just like
07:55
the most buy the book definition of a dispensary, you
07:59
know what I mean, it's how they look at their place.
08:01
Speaker 1
Anyway. They got it from me. The weed stores got
08:05
it from me. Anyways. My name is Jack O'Brien aka
08:10
Jackhammer Killer oh Dan of course courtesy of Snarfila on
08:17
the Treehouse of Horror's nickname this is I discovered a
08:22
reference to a two thousand and four film called The
08:26
Jackhammer Massacre. I think I have to assume that's who
08:29
The Jackhammer Killer is about, a guy who you guessed
08:33
it uses a jackhammer to kill people. It does sound
08:36
like he's the protagonist, Like it's a you follow his dissent.
08:40
He's like a businessman and his friend dies and that
08:42
like sends him over the edge. So it's like a
08:44
Michael Douglas falling down American psycho situation. He is, and
08:48
this is a spoiler alert for anybody who's planning on
08:51
checking it out, he is ultimately undone by the fact
08:54
that the jackhammer needs to be plugged in.
08:57
Speaker 2
If it comes unplugged, God, is that even true? I mean,
09:03
I feel like they have need my power than that.
09:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, I would have assumed that it is just something
09:08
you like edit out, but they were like, no, this
09:10
is gonna be the crux.
09:11
Speaker 2
Of Oh okay, wait no, he's probably using like a
09:13
more handheld jackhammer, like, uh okay, interesting he doesn't have
09:19
like a cordless Makida option. It's a yeah, I would
09:23
miss my probably made before the cordless era. I guess
09:27
two thousand and four. You'd think or like a gas
09:30
powered one, you know what I mean, where you could
09:33
do like a scary like rip the cord and it's
09:35
like instead, it was like, hold on, let me plug
09:38
this in really like a like a hot glue bull.
09:41
Speaker 1
Hey you got a fifty foot extension. That's what happens.
09:45
The cord comes unflugged. That does if I were a slasher.
09:50
That does sound like the sort of ship that would
09:52
get me caught up over the house and then find
09:55
an outlet. That's really funny. Oh, it's one of the
09:59
ones that attached to the light switch, so I have
10:02
to like turn the lights on to get the quigged in.
10:05
It's a too prong's you don't have gfcason here.
10:10
Speaker 3
Yeah, I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my
10:13
co host, mister Miles Gras. It's Miles Gray Gay trust dementia,
10:19
Trust got dementia, Trust got dementia.
10:21
Speaker 2
Trus got dementia, or Truans got dementia, or Trum's got dementia,
10:24
but dementia trus dementia.
10:26
Speaker 1
Okay, shout out to me.
10:28
Speaker 3
This morning, we were talking about intergalactic we were talking
10:31
about Jack coming on. We're talking about intergalactic ship, and
10:34
then we were also talking about that we would have
10:37
also accepted another dementia, another dementia because we got two
10:43
presidents in a row.
10:44
Speaker 1
Baby, everyone's got dementia.
10:46
Speaker 3
Baby, if you gotta be on the hill, you gotta
10:48
have rocket dementia. Congress by dementia. Yeah, Congress too. It's
10:55
so many of them. We have the geriatric Congress night
10:58
right now. It's crazy.
10:59
Speaker 1
Yeah.
11:00
Speaker 3
I mean, I think people who have who can barely
11:03
know if they're going to be alive for the next
11:05
three months, be dictating what the future looks like ten
11:08
years from now.
11:09
Speaker 1
Get them out of here. Get them all out of here.
11:11
I'm just going, I'm sorry, I'm agist. Get him out
11:14
for something at a certain hundred percent. Yah, get them
11:18
out of there agism is just like I don't. I'm
11:21
worried for them. I got it. And every time there's
11:24
a video of Mitch McConnell, like, I'm like, is he
11:27
going to make it through this video, let alone the day?
11:30
Like it's harrowing. Anyways, Miles, we're thrilled to be joined
11:35
in our third seat once again by the director, journalist,
11:39
and hosts behind one of the great podcasts. It is
11:42
about as I think he put it the first time.
11:45
He was on the fact that the world is queerer
11:48
than many of us suppose, indeed, queer than many of
11:50
us can suppose. It's called other world. He's called Jack Wagner.
11:57
Speaker 2
To be clear, I did not say that, but thank
11:59
you for having me on the show. It's a pleasure
12:01
as always to be here. I did not call my
12:03
show queer. If I did, it would be in a
12:05
positive way.
12:06
Speaker 1
Yes, yeah, yes, that fake quote, I thought, Man, did
12:11
you actually think time? Did you actually think I said
12:13
that I had that quote and maybe it was something
12:16
that I thought was I think it was being used
12:18
to describe the paranormal. Wait, that's me. I said.
12:23
Speaker 2
It's original, it's giving pre nineteen hundred. Yes, for sure,
12:28
for sure, for sure, but I'll take it. I'll take
12:30
it's a good quote.
12:31
Speaker 1
It's a good quote. Quote sums up some of my
12:34
favorite parts of you.
12:35
Speaker 2
Although you should start doing that to every guest is
12:37
kind of like ye and see what they do with
12:40
it if it's a good quote, Like I mean, sometimes
12:45
you might want to take credit.
12:46
Speaker 1
Why not? You know? Yeah, Jack, thank you so much
12:48
for coming back. You think you any travels and travails
12:53
since you were last we wanted to have you on
12:55
on the spookiest of weeks. Thank you. Your podcast is
13:00
so good. We're gonna end up just being like, man,
13:03
you remember that episode that was crazy and sometimes I
13:07
might not remember it, which is the craziest part. True,
13:11
is that real, dude? So we're gonna We're gonna basically
13:14
do that in the body of the episode. Hell yeah.
13:16
But first we do like to get to know our
13:17
guests a little bit better by asking you, what is
13:20
something from your search history that's revealing about who you are?
13:24
Speaker 2
Okay, this is I have an answer to this. It's
13:27
a it's a layered response though, and this actually it
13:31
sort of caused a lot of reflection for me. I
13:33
searched through my Google search history. Normally this should be horrifying, right, like,
13:41
this is not something you want even your significant other
13:44
to access. I was scrolling through mine, dead serious, completely dry.
13:50
It would dox me. So I'm not gonna let you look,
13:52
but I would let you look. It's that boring. I
13:55
had to scroll three weeks back to find something interesting, dude,
13:59
I'm telling.
13:59
Speaker 1
You how mundane it was. I was like, literally for
14:03
bigger right foot, not even that dry.
14:05
Speaker 2
I was just like purely looking up like addresses, and
14:07
I'm like, oh, right, dinner in Echo Park just that,
14:12
and then like kind of googling just facts to confirm,
14:15
like spellings of things, no spice whatsoever, just no flavor,
14:20
no fun, no wild cards. I was looking at this
14:24
and had to go three weeks back in the history
14:27
to find something, you know, off color, funny, weird. But
14:32
I'm like, dude, I think I need to get to
14:35
I need to go back to my roots and get
14:36
a little weirder because this is.
14:38
Speaker 1
The last three weeks. I yeah, hold a mirror up
14:40
to you that you didn't.
14:40
Speaker 2
Know nothing even embarrassing. Damn, I think even embarrassing. I'm like, oh,
14:45
I mean.
14:46
Speaker 1
Ones do flies?
14:48
Speaker 3
Fuck, that's a great search. See, I don't even have
14:51
any of that, dude, And I mean, I don't know.
14:53
I mean, and part of it just sort of reveals
14:55
my own ignorance. But that's the fun of it, right,
14:57
just being transparent about how little I know about how
14:59
flies copulate?
15:01
Speaker 1
Do they? Is it? I feel like it must be
15:02
an egg situation in the larva, right, that's what you think.
15:06
Speaker 3
Until I caught him banging outside on a chair.
15:09
Speaker 1
I was, and I was like, how are they hit it? Oh?
15:12
Speaker 3
Yeah, like straight from the like from the back. Yeah, yeah,
15:15
some interesting on another fly the female uses like an
15:19
egg two to like it's it's very interesting.
15:22
Speaker 1
Anyway, So you got nothing very dry? No? No, okay,
15:26
so I scrolled where did you get? No?
15:28
Speaker 2
I did find one? Oh god, yeah, I I'm Stephen
15:31
looking at it right now. This is uh so embarrassing.
15:34
I'm like looking up sponsors, like you know, you guys
15:38
do ads, like I'm sure you have to go through
15:40
the approvals of like brands that could be advertising on
15:43
the show.
15:44
Speaker 1
I'm just googling that.
15:45
Speaker 2
But anyway, the little ultra evil. Yes, But the one
15:50
I found that I do think is funny is can
15:52
water go bad?
15:53
Speaker 1
Mm?
15:54
Speaker 2
Yeah? This is not a question for me, but I
15:57
did want to know. This was like something I was
15:59
arguing with my wife about. She thinks water could go bad.
16:03
I'm like, they get the bottles, you know what I mean, Like,
16:07
that's that's what we read. How long a cup sitting
16:10
out in the house? How long sitting there until you
16:13
can't drink it?
16:14
Speaker 3
I mean you probably just evaporate at that point. I'm
16:16
more thinking like a bottle of water, like, oh, that
16:20
ship said drink by like ninety eight.
16:23
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's another good question.
16:25
Speaker 2
I mean, if it's plastic, I would be a little
16:27
concerned that tasting.
16:30
Speaker 1
Like plastic is usually like my if it If it
16:33
tastes like plastic, you usually that happens if it's like
16:35
been in a car like for fifteen cycles of like the.
16:41
Speaker 2
Moon, well fifteen moon cycles. Yeah, yeah, let me ask you.
16:44
That's like water. There's like a cup of water on
16:46
the side of your bed, yes, from the night before?
16:49
Speaker 1
Yeah?
16:50
Speaker 2
Would you drink it the next night if it was
16:51
there and available and you needed it. I don't get
16:53
in the plants tastes like room.
16:55
Speaker 1
Tastes like room.
16:56
Speaker 3
Okay, it tastes like there, it absorbs like be fucking
17:00
in that. I don't care about that. It just tastes
17:02
like room. Tastes like the room, like an overnight cup.
17:05
Speaker 1
I don't know.
17:06
Speaker 3
Maybe I would get a little tiny bubbles on the foot. Yeah,
17:10
it just gets It's just a little stale.
17:11
Speaker 1
I guess that's how I think. Yeah, this is just
17:13
something I wanted to know.
17:14
Speaker 3
You know, Wait, so is there an answer no that
17:16
it cannot like what scenario?
17:19
Speaker 1
Because I forgot? Can't water go bad?
17:21
Speaker 2
I mean no, I think it's the answer is no,
17:23
but like I think it's oh wait, yes, water can
17:26
come back. Technically, the water itself does not expire. The
17:29
main issue are contaminants from the container or outside sources,
17:32
degradation of the canar itself over time, especially if exposed
17:35
to heat or sunlight. So you know, we were not
17:39
far off, far off.
17:40
Speaker 3
Yeah.
17:41
Speaker 1
Yeah. The thing that I'm always imagining happening is I
17:44
took a sip my mouth, germs have like somehow invaded
17:48
and started to colonize the wall, and it's going to
17:51
just be like bad bread in there. It's just like
17:54
that inside your body, right, yeah, exactly, So I should
17:57
be fine, but none, none of the les us. I'm
18:00
like I'll take a this is for the plants. Now,
18:04
this is for the kids. I put it in my kids.
18:05
A little cooler with your mouth, exactly? Do we pass
18:12
our legacy along? What is something you think is underrated? Jack?
18:17
Waking up early is underrated? Waking up early?
18:21
Speaker 2
I like, I'm a big fan of waking up super early.
18:24
How up before sunrise if possible? So Mark, some like
18:27
Mark Wahlberg, shit not on that. I mean, that's crazy.
18:31
In fact, I'll say I will say that being buff
18:34
is overrated.
18:35
Speaker 1
Mm hmmm. Waking up early under that's crazy because most
18:39
people that are fucking jacked, dude, are waking up early. Man,
18:43
you and a bunch of jacked people who are awake
18:46
and moving at the time that you're waking up.
18:49
Speaker 2
I mean, yeah, I think you know the gym crowd
18:51
they have to do and there are there are the
18:53
late night gym people. That's right, some serious jack dudes
18:57
will be in there at like weird hours, like a
18:59
let and thirty working out.
19:01
Speaker 1
You know. Yeah, so you gotta get three hours of
19:03
workout in every day, you know, you got to pick
19:06
your spots.
19:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, But I would say, I'll yeah, I'll keep
19:10
with this line and say that being buff is overrated.
19:13
I mean, look, I think, uh, if you are buff,
19:17
more power to you. I think so much of it
19:20
is genetics, you know. In fact, like Matthew McConaughey I
19:24
think was like quoted saying that he just like kind
19:27
of randomly bangs out push ups throughout the day and
19:30
like doesn't really have a routine.
19:31
Speaker 1
I think it was. But it's like, yeah, there are
19:33
guys who just kind of look like that just genuinely
19:36
looks great without a shirt on since he was like
19:39
ten years old.
19:40
Speaker 2
Yeah, and then like for your resisting nature, it's like
19:43
really really hard to change it. But yeah, I mean
19:48
I think it's overrated. Like like to to really be
19:53
that shredded, it's like a full time job. Yeah, that's
19:56
a lot of time, a lot of dedication. I'm like
19:59
it's crazy, and we have a Yeah, training is overrated.
20:03
Speaker 1
I'll just say that.
20:04
Speaker 2
America's obsessed training, now, you know. I mean like that's yeah,
20:09
I mean ethos, social media, like it's like gym talk
20:13
kind of ship. Yeah, I mean there's like the whole
20:16
hybrid thing between like the CrossFit like military adjacent I
20:21
think there's like a there's like a certain type of
20:24
person that like, uh works out in a stolen valor
20:27
type of way.
20:30
Speaker 1
I don't know in their mind. Maybe I don't know
20:32
where I'm going.
20:32
Speaker 2
With this, but uh, you know, I think there's guys,
20:35
well I think there's a huge chunk of America that
20:37
they're like training for something that's gonna they think might happen,
20:40
and it's just never gonna happen.
20:41
Speaker 1
You know.
20:42
Speaker 2
It's the same thing with like the gun guys training
20:45
the weapons, like they're doing like the tactical training. You know,
20:48
they're buying all the gear. They're like kind of waiting
20:50
for the ship to hit the fan. But yeah, now
20:52
they just have to join ice ship that rarely hits
20:54
the fan. Yeah, well now they have that, they have
20:58
that outlet.
20:59
Speaker 1
But it seem like it's the buff guys or the
21:01
guys who are training with guns that are doing I
21:05
think fitness.
21:06
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think you could let a lot of you
21:08
could waste a lot of time training.
21:10
Speaker 1
Yeah, you know, yeah, everybody is in the movies. Everyone's buff.
21:16
Now it's just like you know, the like objectively does
21:21
Iron Man? Does it make sense that Tony Stark is
21:24
like a jacked dude, like he's supposed to be.
21:26
Speaker 3
It doesn't matter a scientist because at his most potent
21:30
form is some jacked iron body and.
21:34
Speaker 1
The like he's over. He's compensating for the physical realities
21:38
by creating this like metal body that can encase him.
21:41
It would make more sense if he was a skinny
21:45
you know, you're right scientially, But instead they were like, dude,
21:49
you're gonna need to spend a year get starting to
21:53
look like Superman, drinking goat and mill.
21:56
Speaker 2
If he was in the suit all the time, he
21:57
would have almost no muscle mass point Yeah, yeah, because
22:03
like he wouldn't be using his muscles.
22:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, it would be amazing. Victory the superproduser Victor said
22:08
he would have Elon Musk's body type. Amazing damn I
22:12
god fit giant Torso Jarvis a just mid section please
22:19
there's I mean.
22:20
Speaker 3
It's funny though, too, because I think we were talking
22:21
about this last week about how all the leading men
22:23
are just so fucking rich with everyone fucking body fat,
22:27
and I'm like on gear though, yeah, I was like,
22:29
but remember, like Kevin Costner was like the fucking height
22:32
of it, Like in Americans, like, oh god, this guy
22:36
that looks like he doesn't work out ever, and just
22:38
that's the ideal.
22:41
Speaker 2
Yeah, like he's like naturally fit enough. Okay, here's a
22:46
good Google search Kevin Costner shirtless. See that would have
22:49
been I'm looking at right now. He looked there's the
22:51
one with the chest hair right, Oh, I mean hill
22:54
him in Bull Durham.
22:55
Speaker 1
That's like.
22:57
Speaker 2
That's kind of like where you want to be. That's
22:59
a good place to be as a guy. I mean,
23:01
you could get a little more muscle, but you know
23:03
my ideal body type Kevin Costner and Bull Durham. Yeah,
23:07
it's like not a ton of muscle, but he's looking good.
23:10
Speaker 1
You know. Yeah, buff doesn't work all the time. Though
23:13
it's not bad.
23:13
Speaker 2
There's a way that there's like a six pack if
23:15
you're not meant to have one spiritually, it's like not good.
23:18
Speaker 1
Yeah.
23:18
Speaker 2
You ever seeing somebody that like works really hard to
23:21
get one. Then you see it and you're like, did
23:23
not expect you to have that? And I don't know
23:25
if I feel.
23:26
Speaker 1
Comfortable with it? What the fuck? What do you do?
23:29
Speaker 2
You know what I'm saying, You're at the end of
23:30
the beach and it's like a really pasty dude. It
23:33
almost looks he has a photoshopped set of abs on.
23:36
Speaker 1
It's creepy. Yeah, that's Jack. I'm just looking the photoshopped
23:41
as well. You tape the photo on your stomach. But
23:44
I'm just remembering the Kevin Costner swimming in a in
23:48
Robin Hood. He's like taking a bath in a waterfall.
23:53
And that is the reverse of the Iron Man, where
23:56
it's like, wait, this doesn't make sense that he would
23:58
be this Jack. It's he's like supposed to be the
24:02
fucking hottestitude ever. He's like getting out of a shower,
24:06
out of you know, the equivalent, the Robinhood equivalent of
24:09
the shower, which is a waterfall. And like Maid Marian
24:12
is like visibly being like, oh god, I'm looking at this.
24:17
D Yeah, dude, how are you gonna say that? He
24:22
looks like, you know, this is normal, looks like regular. Yeah. Yeah,
24:26
he's like extra regular, extra me Robin Hood bringing back
24:29
extra regular. Yeah. Oh wow, was this ass out in
24:33
the movie? His asses out, remember, and he has tand lines.
24:37
I know. Yeah, I guess.
24:40
Speaker 3
The sun is strong out there in Sherwood for us.
24:43
All right, we're gonna, we're gonna, you got there. I
24:46
imagine this is normal saddle show. But yeah, yeah, this
24:50
is about so yeah Kevin Costs and.
24:52
Speaker 1
Our shirtless Let's take a quick break and we'll come
24:56
back and talk about Oija. We'll be right back, and
25:10
we're back. We're back. And uh. You did a couple
25:15
episodes on WIGE Awards, yes a year ago or so
25:20
and then a more recent one where you cover the
25:23
phenomenon of Zozo and Zaza.
25:27
Speaker 2
Who I mean, it's funny, it's it is funny. The
25:30
aren't The episodes aren't funny, they're scary, but they are spooky.
25:34
Speaker 1
I was getting spooked. It's getting downright spooked to listen
25:37
to those things. It's kind of like, he reminds me,
25:40
have you ever been in a meeting where like someone
25:42
zoom bombs it, like usually a teenager fuck you, like
25:48
just as the worst thing they could think of in
25:52
that That's really funny though.
25:53
Speaker 3
That's like such a twenty twenty kind of It was
25:55
a real zoom bombing.
25:57
Speaker 1
It was a it was a real pandemic thing. Yeah,
26:00
and that kind of feels like, what's happening. It's like
26:03
these two malevolent spirits that keep and so here. The
26:10
thing that is creepy about it is that you're taught
26:16
you the format of your shows. You talk to people
26:18
who they then tell their story of this thing that
26:23
resists sort of explanation happening to them, and so it's
26:27
like almost an oral tradition. You get to hear the
26:30
story from them. It adds a real like layer of
26:35
like I don't know that's this is like it's hard
26:39
to deny when people are like, yeah, so like I
26:41
was in high school, like this is the weird shit
26:43
that I was doing, and then like this thing started happening.
26:47
And in this case that like people were fucking around
26:54
with Wiji boards and like they started having these like
26:56
really dark messages come through and it was Zozo in
27:01
the episodes from last year was like what they kept
27:04
it kept going zo zo zo and like they they
27:08
didn't realize it at the time, but like you do
27:10
the research and this is a there's a trend across
27:14
people who fuck around with Wigi boards of like this
27:16
specific thing happened.
27:18
Speaker 3
Oh and Zaza is like a common Ouiji board.
27:21
Speaker 2
It's like a very common thing, very common. There's like
27:25
a movie called I Am Zozo that I think is
27:27
like not very well reviewed. I think it's like a
27:30
thirteen percent rotten tomato situation, but a classic. But yeah,
27:34
this is like a massive thing, and you know, I
27:38
had heard of it, Like I I think I had
27:40
heard of like the concept just from being on the
27:42
internet or something. But it's totally something that I would
27:46
completely laugh at and not want to do on the show.
27:51
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think you were consciously making up names. Those
27:54
would not be the names you came in.
27:56
Speaker 2
Sounds like a big name that like a thirteen year
27:57
old girl she's like to write a horror movie for
28:01
the first time, like a like.
28:02
Speaker 1
A five year old that lies a lot.
28:04
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah, exactly, but it is weird, And yeah, I
28:11
started getting a lot of emails about it, and then
28:14
you know, obviously people I ended up interviewing had like
28:18
really intense stories that involve this, and apparently it's really
28:24
common for something to kind of like take over on
28:27
the board and identify itself by this name.
28:30
Speaker 1
And yeah, I guess that was.
28:31
Speaker 2
Like where it turned for me, is when I was
28:33
starting to talk to people who like weren't aware that
28:36
this is a phenomena that's known, and even things that
28:40
kind of like happened before the anybody was talking about
28:44
this at all on the internet.
28:46
Speaker 1
Yeah, so my read like heading in was more like
28:50
I think weedi words are super interesting because I do
28:55
think like they're you know, like like skeptics will be like, oh,
28:59
it's just like people you know, moving the thing on purpose,
29:03
and I tend to think it's like more they're moving
29:07
it and don't realize they're doing it, and so this
29:09
like part of them is being expressed that they don't
29:14
have access to or like control over, you know, like
29:17
it's like a sort of YOUNGI in like some part
29:20
of and in this case, it would be like a
29:22
shared unconscious because they all have the same name and
29:26
like this that is associated with the same like dark energy. Yeah,
29:31
which I think like that doesn't explain everything, but I
29:34
do think it's easy. Like this comes up a lot
29:38
on our show in reference to like the story of
29:42
Havana syndrome, where everyone was like, oh, they were making
29:45
it up, and it's like, I don't think they were
29:48
intentionally making it up. Like I think they experienced those
29:53
realities of like a bad thing like getting hit with
29:57
a sound beam or being like under attack by some
29:59
like invisible force that it turns out as like kind
30:03
of physically impossible to have happened.
30:07
Speaker 2
But like they I know, I'm sorry to force a detour,
30:11
but they ever find a solution for that?
30:13
Speaker 1
Was there any closure? It's not like officially, but you know,
30:17
you as documents have been released the CIA themselves and
30:22
and like the different departments, the Pentagon, like prior to
30:27
the Trump takeover, all seemed to be like, we don't
30:30
think there was any like physical basis for these attacks,
30:34
and these are our organizations that would seemingly love a
30:37
physical basis for an attack that they could, you know,
30:40
start getting funding around.
30:42
Speaker 2
Because I heard compelling explanations on both sides of it.
30:45
Like I first encountered it as something that was just
30:48
complete nonsense. It was like evil CIA people having like
30:52
maybe internalized guilt for the horrible things to right at work. Yeah,
30:58
but you know, but then I've also heard some stuff
31:02
that was really compelling on the other side, Like there's
31:04
I listened to it like a series where it interviewed
31:06
some people who had experienced it in a town. Isn't
31:09
really intense, but anyway, you could continue with your point.
31:12
Speaker 1
I didn't. I think that that's true. I think that
31:15
they experienced harrowing things. I think I think the power
31:19
of the unconscious mind is like the great underrated force
31:23
of people's existence. And I think like ritual and you know,
31:28
all these things that we don't really make room for officially,
31:31
as like mattering in our world. In a lot of cases,
31:36
like are ways of accessing that. And I think I
31:39
just think that people are like, if it's their own
31:43
conscious mind, then it's like skeptic skeptic view not interesting.
31:48
And I think that's actually like really interesting, Like that's
31:51
kind of what's going on. But there are definitely parts
31:54
of the story that would make it like impossible for that.
32:00
Like there's one part where it predicts that they're they're
32:04
at like a high school movie screening on a football field,
32:08
and it is like it predicts that the projector is
32:12
about to go down and it does. Yeah, right, Yeah.
32:15
There's a ton of stuff like that.
32:17
Speaker 2
And I mean also the fact that in that story
32:19
this occurred before this whole Zozo thing was like a
32:23
trend like a decade before.
32:25
Speaker 1
Yeah.
32:26
Speaker 2
And then the other thing is like the basis for
32:30
pooh pooing wig aboards as they say, it's like the
32:32
ideo motor effect. It's like this idea that like microscopic
32:36
muscle movements in a group can like guide the thing
32:40
the plan chet. But and that's you know, like the
32:44
idio motor effect is like a real thing. I'm pretty
32:46
sure it's been like proven to exist. But if you
32:50
look at the board like ZO, like Z is all
32:55
the way at the end, oh is not equally the
32:58
at the end on the opposite side, it's like one roller.
33:01
So I just think, like if you guys, if like
33:04
like I know, people explain it away by saying like, oh,
33:06
it's just sort of like in the downtime between you know,
33:09
the radio motor effect spelling out a word, people just
33:12
kind of like go to the side to side pattern
33:14
and hit that.
33:15
Speaker 1
I'm like, I just don't think it would hit z
33:17
O or ZA for that matter. Right, it's two specifics
33:21
things from each other. Yeah, it's too common. It's too
33:24
common out I would expect to see other patterns of
33:26
that sort. And that's sort of what I I kind
33:30
of come to those conclusions a lot on the show
33:32
where I'm very open to looking at it both ways,
33:36
but sort of like, well, I would expect to see more,
33:39
like I'm same with like the hat Man stuff right
33:43
down the hat Man stuff. The hat Man is this
33:46
very common shadow figure that people see oftentimes in sleep prolysis,
33:52
but people see it not during sleep parroalysis. It's just
33:56
the shadow shadow man that looks like he's wearing like
33:59
a wide brimmed and sometimes he has red eyes. There's
34:02
like another thing that I would have laughed at and
34:03
thought was corny until I realized like how common this is.
34:07
And it's like a localized thing because I mean I've
34:11
I seen it was all over the place, right, so,
34:13
and that's kind of what makes it sort of interesting.
34:15
Speaker 3
It's not just like, well, these group of kids over
34:17
here SA when they're fucking around with ambient or something.
34:19
It's like, no, this is it.
34:21
Speaker 2
Oh yeah, there's that too, Yeah, the benda dryl thing.
34:23
But but yeah that. And then in sleep paralysis, there's
34:26
like a few common things people see. The other one
34:30
is like the old Hag, which is like this woman
34:33
sitting on you. And then this is sort of the
34:35
same thing, but like the Mayor the night This is
34:39
like the origin for the term nightmare. Is this thing
34:42
sitting on you and holding you down. But anyway, there's
34:46
like is it a horse? The mayor is a horse?
34:49
I think at one point it was like a horse. Yeah,
34:52
kind of like demon thing. I think that's what it
34:54
might have been.
34:55
Speaker 1
Damn.
34:56
Speaker 2
But yeah, it's a really old term. But they're like
34:59
pretty much every culture has a similar thing to this,
35:02
and they're all similar looking, like seeing this old woman
35:06
on you or in the case of the hat man,
35:08
how widespread that is. So circling back to the unconscious talk,
35:12
if it was just like the human unconscious whatever that means,
35:17
by the way, right, generating this, you'd expect to see
35:20
a lot more variation, especially throughout time and culture. Like
35:24
I would be very, very surprised, you know, I just
35:27
said that the whole the origin of the term nightmare
35:30
comes from this phenomenon. You would expect going back that
35:35
far that like fears would change enough.
35:37
Speaker 1
Why would we have like why wouldn't it be uh tesla?
35:42
You know, that's what we get around. We don't get
35:43
around in uh on horses anymore. We get around on
35:47
so like, wow, why would it still be a horse?
35:48
Why would it be a guy with a big hat
35:50
that like is not a style people wear anymore.
35:53
Speaker 2
I would expect to see more like micro trends with it,
35:56
if that makes sense.
35:57
Speaker 1
Yeah, totally.
35:58
Speaker 2
Yeah, and between cultures and stuff. So yeah, that's those
36:04
are the kind of things that interest me, you know.
36:06
And and those two things I did laugh off at first,
36:10
but then kind of reluctantly dug into them, like, oh,
36:12
this is pretty interesting actually and frightening. So I don't
36:16
really know what it is. It's funny that, I mean,
36:18
I think it's sort of a stupid name. I wanted
36:21
to think of another name for that episode besides Zaza,
36:23
Like it killed me to call it Zaza. But that's like,
36:26
I don't know, I think that's interesting though, when it's
36:28
a scary thing that like I'm you know, I'm I'm
36:32
normally somebody that would think it's completely stupid, but the
36:36
story is compelling enough that like pulls me to the
36:38
other side, right, And it's kind of a goofy sounding name,
36:41
but this is that I guess that makes it scarier
36:44
in a way. You're like, no, not Zaza physical well,
36:47
it is like something that like you would kind of
36:50
laugh at it first, you know, totally.
36:52
Speaker 3
I mean, I think that's kind of like the experience
36:54
of listening to your show, Like I remember last time
36:57
You're on was kind of like I think you were
36:59
just getting in to like the Them series of episodes
37:03
and like I'm I'm I'm very skeptical, Like I'm I'm
37:08
one of those people who like even though like Japan
37:11
I'm Japanese, there's like very rich ghost like you know,
37:15
spooky culture there that I'm like, nah, I'm not, I'm
37:19
not seeing any of this stuff. But like in listening
37:23
to your show, because I mean, like I remember when
37:24
you're on Last Time, you're sort of like, I don't
37:26
necessarily believe in everything or at all. It's more just
37:28
like it's it's really interesting to hear these people describe
37:33
these events that have happened and them experience them. Yeah,
37:37
and Them one is by far one of the most
37:40
fucking out there things I've ever heard in my life.
37:43
If you like, give like a you know, like a
37:45
three line description of it so people kind of understand
37:48
what I'm about to, like get into here.
37:49
Speaker 1
And real quick. Before you were, before we started recording,
37:52
you were had to answer a text message. I have
37:55
to assume it was from one of the interdimension them.
37:58
Speaker 2
Yeah, how do you know, I will say interesting timing.
38:03
The girl from that series is visiting right now. She's
38:06
in town, so I met her in person. Yeah, so
38:09
by meetup man, you could look up. Yeah, maybe you'll
38:12
see her walking around in the neighborhood.
38:14
Speaker 3
Yeah, but I mean yeah, like sort of give a
38:16
light breakdown, because I think it's really interesting to listen
38:19
whether or not you believe in this stuff or skeptical,
38:21
I think it's the experience of listening to it for
38:23
me was very interesting.
38:25
Speaker 1
I'm glad you liked it.
38:26
Speaker 2
Basically, it's about this girl in Norway who is kind
38:30
of feeling off and basically one night while she's in college,
38:34
sees this strange looking like man in her room, almost
38:40
like a ghost but not quite. She's obviously freaked out,
38:45
has a lot of really strange physical sensations as well
38:48
around this time, and tries to power on with her life,
38:53
but is ultimately just kind of having anxiety about it
38:57
and tweaking as you would expect. So she calls her
39:00
her mom in hopes that her mom will calm her down,
39:03
tells her like, I saw this thing, like I'm feeling
39:06
all this stuff, blah blah blah. But instead of her
39:09
mom calming her down, she was like I was afraid
39:13
this was going to happen, and was like, they're talking
39:15
to you now.
39:17
Speaker 1
She's like what, there we go. Yep.
39:20
Speaker 2
But so she's like what And so her mom, you know,
39:24
tells her very briefly that she's been communicating with these
39:26
beings for like a long time and is essentially like,
39:30
come home to visit and we'll talk. And at that
39:34
point she finds out that the mom and a girl
39:38
from the mom's gym have been communicating with what they
39:40
think are interdimensional beings for a substantial amount of time
39:45
I forget how long. Yeah, And to make to make
39:48
it stranger, this girl from the gym is the same
39:50
age as soul Vi, and her and the mom have
39:52
like become very close to the point where there she
39:56
becomes like a third sister to them essentially.
39:58
Speaker 1
Yeah, and like kind of gangers or like they have
40:01
like a lot of between them.
40:04
Speaker 3
Yeah.
40:04
Speaker 1
Yeah.
40:05
Speaker 2
So it's like and it gets weirder from there, right, ye.
40:08
But it's to me, it's all I always like that
40:12
like start to the story is what locked me in
40:14
early on, and especially meeting soul I I'm like, I
40:17
one hundred percent believe this girl.
40:19
Speaker 1
I mean, it's not even a question of belief. You know.
40:21
Speaker 2
You meet her and talk to her just like she's
40:23
a very straightforward person, right this clearly happened to her
40:27
and she doesn't know what it is.
40:29
Speaker 3
But that's the thing that like really fucked me up
40:31
about it now, because again I was like, I'm sure
40:33
there's got to be a way to explain all this,
40:35
But then I was trying to look deeper as to
40:39
what was pulling me in despite being so like logical,
40:44
when I like when I listen to things like this,
40:46
and there was something I think, because we live in
40:49
this like super dumbed down, like deeply disconnected world right now,
40:54
like our current like world, this modern world, we're completely
40:57
disconnected from like you know, the land, from each other,
41:00
like our history and things like that, that to hear
41:04
somebody describe these sort of paranormal phenomena or experiences in
41:10
a way like sort of calls to something like that,
41:14
there's something there's like there's a spirituality that we've lost
41:17
on some level as human beings that even if I
41:20
believe Soulvie are not hearing this person speak about these
41:25
things that can't be explained, that they don't understand, is
41:29
like pulling at something I think much deeper, like in
41:31
the human experience that we just completely lack now, like
41:34
especially because that's what colonialism does to most people, like completely,
41:39
it's those things are seen as like pagan or savage
41:42
or whatever.
41:43
Speaker 1
And the ritual and spirituality out of things, and it's
41:46
just like, this is a materialist universe. Here are the
41:48
laws that explain it. We know everything, no more mystery,
41:52
right to work.
41:53
Speaker 3
Exactly, And I think there's a yearning on some level
41:56
that it surely just can't be all of this just
41:59
tangible shit. It on some level, even if you're religious
42:02
or not that like, there is something that we feel
42:04
on a deeper level that we can't quite explain. And
42:06
I think that's why I really enjoy listening to the
42:08
show is because even then, even if I'm like, I
42:11
don't know if this actually happened, but the sensation of
42:14
hearing a person sort of sincerely describe a thing, whether
42:18
they're like very talented liars or just people who are
42:21
really being very sincere, there's just something that is undeniable
42:25
that I realize. I'm like, oh, man, like there's something
42:27
about it that is like I don't know, like healing,
42:31
or there's a yearning that I didn't understand, like I
42:34
had deep within me, which is like trying to find
42:36
sort of like these sort of threads to something like
42:39
that isn't just tangible and just explainable like everything else
42:42
has been.
42:43
Speaker 2
In mind, I like, I really really like that reaction,
42:46
And that's actually kind of like what I hope the reaction.
42:48
I hope people have to the show, or was hoping
42:51
they would have. And I think it's why I like
42:55
this stuff, you know, where I wasn't super into it,
42:58
but I do think like when you hear some thing
43:00
like that, I find it comforting in a way, like
43:05
it kind of can make you feel small and like
43:08
remind you that, oh, yeah, we really don't know anything still, right,
43:12
and especially when like the world is crazy or your
43:15
life is crazy or anything. Just things feel out of
43:19
control so often in life, you know, I think there's
43:22
there's an odd comfort to h hearing the most extreme
43:26
version of that and being reminded like, oh yeah, like
43:30
not only is the world completely out of control, like
43:33
it's always been out of control, like we don't know anything,
43:35
we're just like kind of powerless, you know, And that's fine.
43:39
It's comforting knowing that there are these great, great mysteries
43:43
that maybe we'll understand one day. But it's okay to
43:46
not know because I mean, so I think I've served
43:50
my life being a skeptic, like a real skeptic on
43:53
supernatural things, and yet I wear specific hats or don't
43:58
wear specific hats based on what like how a basketball
44:02
team that I like has.
44:02
Speaker 1
Performed, which is just I think to your point about powerlessness.
44:07
It's like that is the thing I am completely unable
44:10
to control, and so I like invent this stupid way
44:14
that I can control it and like believe it with
44:17
my body and not my mind. But like fully, like
44:20
I'm like, fuck, I did something wrong on the right.
44:23
Speaker 3
Well, yeah, that's what's interesting too, because I remember like
44:26
a lot of people to like shows like yours or
44:28
other shows dealing with like paranormal phenomenas, Like they're people
44:31
who so deeply want to just explain why it isn't
44:35
like and it's just like and it's an unequivocal no,
44:38
this is fucking nonsense, and like I get that sort
44:41
of desire. But I think that's why I like I.
44:44
That's what I found very interesting about listening to the episode.
44:46
It's not me necessarily trying to figure out like where
44:49
are the where are the holes in this story because like, sure,
44:52
I can be very analytical about those kinds of things,
44:56
but I think again, it's the idea of just that
45:01
there is something we just can't explain and it's and sure,
45:03
maybe it's manifesting these people saying like I'm experiencing X,
45:06
Y or Z, but like even knowing someone is experiencing that,
45:10
there's something like intoxicating about it too, And I think
45:13
maybe that could just be because I've been I'm such
45:15
a deep skeptic about stuff like this where I find
45:19
myself not having to be like does this confirm my
45:21
beliefs or does it completely blow them up? I'm like
45:24
finding this middle thing, which is like, no, man, like
45:26
there's something just much deeper, even if it's about like
45:29
it's not maybe necessarily interdimensional beings communicating, but we've shut
45:34
ourselves off to something that like I'm trying to figure
45:37
out how to reconnect to and not in like a
45:39
magical way, but just something that's a little bit more
45:43
outside of what is you know, sort of academically described.
45:46
Speaker 2
Yeah, no, absolutely, And I will say this, like, well,
45:50
first of all, as the host of the show and
45:52
somebody who wants people to just be able to like
45:54
listen and relax and like not being able to not
45:57
try to disprove everything. It is obviously frustrating, like that
45:59
type of person who's like wants to quickly disprove things.
46:03
But I will also say that, like a lot of
46:05
this stuff even if you don't like believe it all
46:07
the way, like a lot of times, like I don't
46:11
have a way to disprove it, and I try, right,
46:14
A lot of people are comfortable disproving something by just
46:18
like saying some bullshit and being okay with it not
46:21
being complete.
46:22
Speaker 1
Right. A lot of the ways.
46:24
Speaker 2
People disprove these things is just like throwing out some
46:27
fucking stupid shit they heard on Wikipedia or like a
46:30
podcast one time and just being like, oh, it's like
46:33
this effect, you know, yeah, like I heard about that
46:36
one time. It's like all right, And then if you really,
46:38
if you really apply it and like pick it through,
46:41
it doesn't make sense, Like it wouldn't hold up in court, right,
46:43
Like you couldn't if you actually had to disprove it,
46:47
like up to the standards of like a jury, you know,
46:49
that would not work. Often times, there's all sorts of
46:52
weird little things people toss around, like mold the person
46:56
had like black mold in their house. Maybe maybe it
46:57
was black mold in their house.
47:00
Speaker 3
That's just like, right, there's the fact that even someone
47:06
is experiencing the world like that.
47:09
Speaker 1
I think it's just very Yeah, I.
47:10
Speaker 2
Would still be interested, but yeah, I mean there's things
47:13
like that that get tossed around as if we even
47:15
fully understand those and Jack not to I'm not picking
47:19
on you at all. I do this too, but like, uh,
47:22
I hear a lot about people saying like, oh, it's
47:24
just their unconscious playing tricks on them. It's like, well, dude,
47:27
that's not even we don't even know what the unconscious
47:30
mind is yet or the limitations of it. So it's
47:33
like that doesn't really I'm not satisfied with that explanation ever.
47:37
That gets tossed around a lot. It's like, well, we
47:39
don't know the function, the complete functions of the unconscious mind,
47:44
how it exists. We don't know if it's completely internal.
47:48
There's people who think that it could be partly external. Yeah,
47:51
I think that it could come from somewhere else. That
47:54
opens things up, that opens the floodgates. Yeah, So it's
47:56
like young believe that there was like a shared just
48:00
that we like had access to that exactly.
48:04
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of my interest in it is
48:07
that it's so unknown and.
48:09
Speaker 3
Which is just as magical the concept of shared unconscious
48:13
and then how then going about to sort of bring
48:16
all that to it.
48:16
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's one of those things where like, uh, it's
48:20
sort of like the one oh one level is being
48:23
the Reddit atheist who just is like, oh, it's all fake.
48:27
But when you kind of like dig deeper, you kind
48:29
of like come out through the other side. At one
48:31
point you could kind of like keep digging through to
48:33
the other side over and over again with this stuff,
48:36
which is interesting. But yeah, like unconscious stuff, I mean
48:40
even bringing it back to the Wuiji board, it's like
48:42
if it is everybody's unconscious, like they're the movement on
48:46
the plan chet kind of like reaching this flow state
48:49
like that is actually what spiritualists would say is the
48:53
key to unlocking it, right.
48:55
Speaker 1
Yeah.
48:55
Speaker 2
The people who create like basically popularize the weedge aboard
48:58
and like they don't actually the spiritualists don't use that anymore.
49:01
But like that era, that era of time is like
49:04
what birth this like the talking board. But yeah, those
49:08
people that believe at one hundred percent would say that
49:10
that is the key, like the group working together and
49:13
that shared exactly.
49:15
Speaker 1
I think it's so powerful and interesting. Yeah, it's it's cool.
49:19
Speaker 2
I mean the longer you think about it, the more.
49:22
Speaker 1
You scratch your head with this stuff. Yeah. Two of
49:25
the characters like predict using Luigi like predict the day,
49:30
the exact day that like when or the you know,
49:33
Zozo predicts the exact day that their boyfriends are both
49:37
going to break up with them, And I thought that
49:38
was funny, so wild.
49:41
Speaker 2
I forgot this either way, it's so interesting. I forget
49:44
if it made it into the episode or not. But
49:45
when she told me that, I was like, do you
49:47
think there's a chance that you guys just broke up
49:49
with you because you were addicted to playing with.
49:51
Speaker 1
The right We're so obsessed with it, But like that
49:55
is what I think. It's like a drug where you're
49:57
like connecting with this thing in a way it is
50:01
not available to you in any other way. So like
50:04
what whether it's something outside or inside, I think it's
50:08
you know, powerful and interesting. I'm way more powerful than
50:11
anybody is anyone who's doing it, like being like it's
50:15
just their unconscious mind making playing tricks. On them that yeah,
50:19
it's not dismissive like that actually makes it more interesting
50:22
to me, I think.
50:23
Speaker 2
Yeah, But with the Them series, people want clean answers.
50:27
There's a certain type of person that would want like
50:28
a clear answer to that, and they go looking for it.
50:33
I wanted to disprove that one I'm not disproven. I
50:37
thought I was going to that confident I would find something.
50:40
I would like turn over enough stones that I would
50:43
find clue, right like, but I have not really even
50:48
formed a theory in my mind that like a hypothetical
50:52
way to disprove it all. I'm just kind of lost,
50:55
which is so spooky to me. And uh, yeah, I
50:59
don't know, that's what I mean, say, with the people
51:01
in it, they don't really know what it is.
51:03
Speaker 3
Whether I think that's why I like even just like
51:06
I would have when I was listening to them, like
51:08
I can't wait to hear what the answer is. But
51:11
then again, as again, like the sensation of listening to
51:14
it isn't necessarily that I'm thinking of it, like logically,
51:18
it's more I'm I think it's because because I'm skeptical
51:22
that part of that, like there's a certain cynicism that
51:24
comes along with that, not that it's like bad or anything,
51:28
but this helped thaw that a bit and was just
51:31
maybe it's just for pure entertainment or pleasure that I
51:34
could just go, well, we don't know everything, and that's
51:37
interesting and I like it and I'll keep it there.
51:39
It's not I'm not going up calling my mom and
51:41
be like, yo, mom, we got to get right with
51:42
these interdimensional beings. I don't know if you hear the
51:44
clicking sounds I'm making with my mouth, And I think that.
51:46
Speaker 1
Sort of uncanny thing you're talking about of like the
51:48
experience of listening to the show is like the we
51:51
used to only learn and pass information on via the
51:55
oral tradition, and like that is learning like hearing things
52:00
as people experience them through their experience, and like that's
52:04
what I think is so powerful about the show is
52:06
that like it's reconnecting you with like that way of
52:10
experiencing these things that you know, we we were just like, yeah,
52:14
but written tradition better, and it's like, no, you're cutting
52:17
out a whole, very compelling way of learning about human experience.
52:22
Speaker 2
Yeah, And I think like to kind of close out
52:25
the whole skepticism thing, you know, people who believe that
52:30
there is explanations for everything. It's just we simply don't.
52:35
I would be I would love to know if we
52:37
did have an explanation, Like, let's just say for ghosts.
52:40
Like people, there are people who legitimately believe that, like
52:44
ghosts have been disproved and like like whether it's infrasound
52:50
or you know, mold poisoning or something. There are people
52:52
who think that's like case closed, this is what it is.
52:56
It's just simply not the case. And what I always
52:58
say in terms of that is like, if there really
53:01
was some way to make a person see a ghost,
53:04
I would love to know. I would love to patent that.
53:07
Should you imagine the haunted house you could do? Can
53:10
you imagine the bag from the Universal Studios contract? If
53:13
I figured out, like there's a sound frequency I could
53:16
play to like vibrate somebody's brain in a way that
53:19
they see a ghost. All right, I'm patenting that you
53:23
won't you won't have the podcast again, bro, I'll be James.
53:27
Speaker 1
Raytheon would be knocking at your door before Universal Studio. Absolutely, yeah,
53:32
let's take a quick break, we'll come back. We'll be
53:34
right back. Sure, and we're back, We're and real quick,
53:48
it is the week of Halloween. I am just curious
53:51
that's somebody who you know, you've connected with all these Oh,
53:55
by the way, we were talking about stupid names. I
53:57
did just want to say pazuzu, which is like an
54:00
ancient It sounds like a gen Z slang for possessed.
54:04
It sounds like a gen Z person being like I
54:06
got pazzuz Yeah.
54:09
Speaker 2
But yeah, that's like people think that is always like
54:12
maybe that means yeah.
54:15
Speaker 3
Yeah, or like close to the movie BJ's Brewer, like, hey,
54:20
have you guys had our PiZZ before for dessert?
54:23
Speaker 1
It's called a pazzuki in the day. But I do
54:26
feel like Halloween is a time when us culture, like
54:32
this version of the zeitgeist, gets to devote energy toward
54:37
living with that like different very you know, allowing those
54:42
energies to kind of come out a little bit. And yeah,
54:45
I feel like there's the skeptical thing that's like there's
54:48
just a chance to get drunk or dress up or whatever.
54:51
But like, first of all, just connecting with the unconscious
54:55
through mask play is like a very interesting form of therapy,
55:00
and you know a thing that I think there are
55:03
interesting ways to take that what the skeptical people are
55:07
talking about and be like that that's actually really interesting
55:09
that just by wearing a mask, you like change how
55:13
you experienced reality in such a way that you like
55:15
almost become a different person. But I'm just curious as
55:18
somebody who has experienced all these stories and like done
55:23
all this reporting, Like what are your thoughts on Halloween? Like,
55:28
on do you think there are any icons of Halloween
55:32
they are like particularly like powerful sort of pop cultural
55:36
wore cruxes, you know what I mean, Like.
55:39
Speaker 2
Uhh, I mean no, Personally, I mean like I am
55:45
just kind of like I think it's just because my work,
55:48
so I'm so desensitized, you know. I think it's like
55:52
the way doctors like don't get freaked out by blood
55:54
at a certain point or bodies or you know, when
55:57
you like don't want to get naked in front of
55:59
your doctor for a physical and your friends like, oh,
56:01
it's just skinned to them, Like they don't they even
56:04
like see you as naked. They don't give a fuck.
56:06
Like I think like I've developed that kind of like
56:09
callousness towards this material, like it doesn't scare me anymore.
56:15
Speaker 1
Yeah, I'm not trying to sound like a badass or whatever.
56:18
But like, so, what do you do like Halloween?
56:19
Speaker 2
You just be just being like, hey, none of this matters.
56:23
I know I should probably this is like not a
56:26
fun answer. I should have just lied and uh told
56:28
you that I'm the biggest Halloween fan or whatever. But no,
56:30
it's become you know, it's interesting. I love Halloween. I
56:33
always have loved Halloween, but now I'm during this month,
56:37
I'm so focused on like making the episodes the best
56:39
they can that like, I don't have a costume, Like
56:42
I don't really have any major plans. This is my
56:45
busy month now. Yeah, I will go on as you
56:48
for Halloween.
56:48
Speaker 1
You're an icon of oh cult ship.
56:51
Speaker 2
Boring costume though or in costume, But I will say, uh,
56:56
in terms of iconography, I mean the Wija board scares me. Yeah,
57:00
I think that's like a weird thing. I I and
57:02
a lot you know people put it. You know, there's
57:05
like horror fans who like put them on their wall
57:07
or whatever like that kind of freak. I wouldn't do that.
57:10
I wouldn't even keep one in my house. I'm just
57:12
gonna be honest with you. That type of stuff. I
57:14
just like wouldn't do it. I don't know.
57:16
Speaker 3
Wait, what's a list of things you wouldn't you wouldn't
57:18
keep in your house based on everything you've encountered. Now,
57:21
so ouiji board, don't bring that, not don't leave that here?
57:25
Are good though, right, that's just a Hasbro toy.
57:28
Speaker 1
That's fine. Most of the answers are nonsense.
57:31
Speaker 2
I don't know, like I think, I think everybody's different.
57:36
I'll just say that everybody's different, and like if something
57:40
freaks you out or freaks me out or unsettles me,
57:43
like I wouldn't keep it in my house, if that
57:44
makes sense. Like some I host the show, so I
57:48
I'm given stuff, I get stuff. There's like there's things
57:52
that just kind of like unsettle me. Like I I
57:53
think I was like designing merch or something. So I
57:56
went to one of those like brew Harria stores or
58:00
whatever that you see in La where it's like they
58:02
sell all the witchcraft stuff and they sell like weird
58:06
Jesus statues and like dragons, and you could.
58:09
Speaker 1
Buy like a love spell.
58:10
Speaker 2
I remember buying like all the weird like love spells
58:13
or like the colone that you spray and can make
58:15
you rich. There are a couple of those that kind
58:17
of like freaked me out, just like the vibes, So
58:19
I think.
58:20
Speaker 1
I got rid of that a little too powerful. I
58:22
feel like.
58:22
Speaker 2
That's sort of my guidelines, is like if it's something
58:26
that's you know, I look at it as more like
58:30
personal but objectively. I don't know if there's like any
58:33
objective things that I think.
58:35
Speaker 1
No, I mean that they're bad. Yeah.
58:36
Speaker 3
I think that's what's so interesting about like the paranormal
58:39
is that it it speaks to everyone differently, Like whereas
58:43
like any ghosts right here, I'm like, yeah, whatever, and
58:45
then someone's like inter dimensional being how I'm like, uh huh.
58:49
Speaker 1
Yeah, Yeah.
58:52
Speaker 2
I think intentions matter a lot. I know my answer
58:55
kind of sounds like a cop out or some shit.
58:58
I'm just like making up off the fly. But I
59:01
think intentions do matter, just based on like what I
59:03
hear on the show. I think like your own like
59:09
vibes for backup lack of a better word, have like
59:11
a big play on things, you know, So if it's
59:15
if it's impacting you, it might impact your home, you know,
59:19
and vice versa. Yeah, and like people, there's there's too
59:23
long of a story. But somebody I know had a
59:25
cursed family ring, like multi generational curse, and like things
59:29
were happening related to the ring. It was an engagement
59:32
ring that made them think it was still cursed. And
59:34
she came to me asking like, hey, do anybody that
59:37
could uncurse the ring? And I was like, no, I
59:40
do not, I do not know.
59:42
Speaker 1
I'm sorry. Who are headed to Mount Doom right now? Yeah?
59:47
Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah, give them, give them some some
59:51
bread and cheese and they could take it, take it
59:53
along with them, two for one.
59:55
Speaker 1
But this was a friend.
59:57
Speaker 2
Her name's Rosie by the way, she's been on the show.
59:59
But yeah, I mean when somebody she was serious and I
1:00:01
wanted to give a serious answer, and I didn't have
1:00:05
an answer for her. But what I actually believed in
1:00:07
when I told her was I was like, you know,
1:00:09
obviously your research around and find somebody to do this,
1:00:12
but you should go with like whatever you think would
1:00:16
uncurse it, right, Like, if you think that's a Catholic priest,
1:00:20
you should go to a Catholic priest. If you think
1:00:22
it's going to be some spooky which lady in the valley,
1:00:25
go there, right if you want a vale Yeah, like
1:00:28
a monk whatever, if you think you should sage it,
1:00:33
do that, Like I think whatever you believe the most
1:00:37
you know, right right right, That's.
1:00:38
Speaker 1
The most powerful is like your own intent.
1:00:40
Speaker 2
Yeah, if you're if you're going into it thinking like
1:00:42
this is not going to work. I think it's not
1:00:44
gonna work.
1:00:44
Speaker 1
See Jack, that's why you wear the Sixers hat man.
1:00:46
That's right, and it works every time. That's why they're
1:00:49
so good. Jack Wagner, is such a pleasure having you.
1:00:53
Thank you for coming on at this spookiest time of
1:00:56
year when you're working on making the show, making amazing
1:01:01
episodes of the shows. Where can people find you and
1:01:04
follow you?
1:01:05
Speaker 2
Other World is the name of the show. We are
1:01:08
available anywhere you get your podcast. I suppose recently started
1:01:12
uploading episodes to YouTube finally, So actually, if you are
1:01:16
listening right now, would actually be very helpful if you
1:01:18
went and subscribed to the YouTube, which I think is
1:01:20
called Other World Pod on YouTube. But just find it.
1:01:24
We've had a cool visualizer made for it, so dope.
1:01:27
But yeah, that's where you can find me.
1:01:29
Speaker 1
Their work of media that you've been able to come
1:01:32
up with, that you've been enjoying. Oh fuck, I don't
1:01:36
know if I have a good answer for this. Is
1:01:39
there a horror movie that you enjoy particularly?
1:01:42
Speaker 2
I haven't seen a good one this year. I've I'm
1:01:44
so lacking in movies. The last TV show I watched
1:01:47
was The Pit.
1:01:48
Speaker 1
Do you guys watch that? Yeah? Yeah, great TV? Yeah,
1:01:52
wullet Proof. I uh we started watching it, but uh
1:01:56
my wife is a physician, and it was just like, no,
1:01:59
just work for her. Yeah, she's just like this is
1:02:03
like this, I might have to go back and watch er. Yeah,
1:02:06
I've never seen it. Yeah, that's that's what I've heard
1:02:10
that people like who completed were just like I need
1:02:12
more of this and went back.
1:02:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, I can't. That can be my recommendation. I can't
1:02:16
recommend an any winning show everybody.
1:02:19
Speaker 1
That's fine. What else?
1:02:23
Speaker 2
What do people normally recommend that it's we've had The
1:02:26
Pit recommended before.
1:02:28
Speaker 3
Yeah, people just say like what they're literally watching right now,
1:02:31
even if it's not interesting, just kind of giving people
1:02:33
a glimpse into like whatever media they're consuming right now.
1:02:36
Speaker 1
But again, totally up to you.
1:02:38
Speaker 2
I'm consuming, dude, the show consumes me sadly. So I'm
1:02:42
gonna plug my own show all the world, and I'll
1:02:44
plug your show. Yeah, people out there and the Dodgers
1:02:49
and the Dodgers, how about them? Miles Where can people
1:02:52
find you as their working media you've been enjoying?
1:02:54
Speaker 3
Yeah, find me everywhere at miles of Gray. Catch me
1:02:58
talking about I need a fan on four to twenty
1:03:01
day Fiance cashm rooting for the Dodgers, just within earshot.
1:03:05
Speaker 1
Of Dodger Stadium, screaming like a fucking demon.
1:03:10
Speaker 3
And let's see a post I like actually from blue
1:03:12
Sky at Internet, hippot at skuy at social posted They're
1:03:15
going to change the clocks this weekend and the president
1:03:17
is powerless to stop it because he's weak and a loser.
1:03:21
Speaker 1
That's what they're saying, sir, that is a Blue Sky post.
1:03:24
I've ever heard one. Let's see I like to tweet
1:03:29
from Eli Crumbendahl, who tweeted, Unfortunately, my nervous system can't
1:03:32
tell the difference between needing to answer some emails and
1:03:35
being wanted for murder. That is how I experienced my life.
1:03:41
You can find me on Twitter at jack underscorel Brian
1:03:44
jack ob One on blue Sky. You can find us
1:03:48
on Twitter and blue Sky at Daily zeikeistre ad The
1:03:52
Daily Zeikeist on Instagram. You can go to the description
1:03:54
of this episode wherever you're listening to it, and they're
1:03:56
at the bottom, you will find the footnote foot there's
1:03:58
where we link off to the information that we talked
1:04:00
about in today's episode. We also link off to a
1:04:03
song that we think you might enjoy, because is there
1:04:05
a song that you think that people might enjoy? Yes, yes, yes,
1:04:09
just more.
1:04:09
Speaker 3
Look, I'm playing Ghost of Yote and my favorite thing
1:04:13
right now to dud just instrumental hip hop. I play
1:04:16
on my spot built in Spotify, So I changed the
1:04:18
soundtrack so it's kind of like Samurai Champlou.
1:04:21
Speaker 1
But I've been listening to the mad.
1:04:23
Speaker 3
Lib Blue Note record album that he did Shades of
1:04:26
Blue mad Lib Invades Blue Note h and I just
1:04:29
want to go out on a track just a mad
1:04:32
Lib is like one of the best sample based producers
1:04:34
out there.
1:04:35
Speaker 1
This one's called Distant Land by mad Lib. All right,
1:04:38
we will link off to that in the footnote. For
1:04:40
Daily is the production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from
1:04:43
My Heart Radio, visit Yeah Heart Radio ap Apple podcast.
1:04:45
Wherever you listen to your favorite shows, that's going to
1:04:48
do it for us. This morning, we're back this afternoon
1:04:50
to tell you what is trending, and we will talk
1:04:53
to you all then, Bye bye.
1:04:55
Speaker 3
The Daily Zeit Guys is executive produced by Catherine Long,
1:04:58
co produced by Bay Wang.
1:05:01
Speaker 1
Co produced by Victor Wright, co written by J. M mcnapp,
1:05:05
Edited and engineered by Justin Conner m