Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season to eighty seven, episode.
Speaker 2: Four of the Warehouse.
Speaker 1: This is still the production of My Heart Radio.
Speaker 3: I didn't catch any of that. I tried to do
Speaker 3: the full Dean scream lead up and then we're watch
Speaker 3: to take back to the White House.
Speaker 4: We're gonna watch it.
Speaker 1: We're gonna watch this take by the Warehouse. Yeah, Dean
Speaker 1: just like cranked up on cocaine, had to cram it
Speaker 1: in man, the whole the whole book.
Speaker 3: Well, this is a podcast, Miles. Did you did you
Speaker 3: know this? Do you hear about this?
Speaker 1: You see? This is the podcast where we take it
Speaker 1: deep to have into America share consciousness. Oh, take a
Speaker 1: deep to have into American share consciousness and stuff.
Speaker 3: I like that.
Speaker 1: I sound more and more like a carnival.
Speaker 3: Or a auctioneer.
Speaker 1: Auctioneer. Thank you, We finish each other's sandwich and which Yeah,
Speaker 1: Thursday Day, May eighteenth, twenty twenty three, which of course
Speaker 1: means eighteenth National Cheese Soup Lay Day, National No Dirty
Speaker 1: Dishes Day, Also International International Museum Day, National HIV Vaccine
Speaker 1: Awareness Day, National Visit Your Relatives Day, Awareness Day.
Speaker 3: Yeah, raising awareness that there is one or just the
Speaker 3: who work together to find. Oh okay, got a sate
Speaker 3: like in vaccine. Yes, you know, it's all about research.
Speaker 3: It's all about research, research, all right.
Speaker 1: Well, my name is Jack O'Brien AKA. We're going down
Speaker 1: down in the second playing rounds, and buddy, we're going
Speaker 1: down sadly.
Speaker 3: That is courtesy of make Curi.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, on the Goody Court make Curory, who said
Speaker 1: I don't know enough about sports to take it further,
Speaker 1: but Jack was about his sad NBA made.
Speaker 3: Me think of sugar. We're going down his sad NBA.
Speaker 1: Is my favorite description talking about his sad NBA.
Speaker 3: Oh man, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm over it or you know, it's one of those
Speaker 1: breakups that we're just we've tried too many times and
Speaker 1: just moving along. And I'm thrilled to be joined as
Speaker 1: always by my co host mister Miles Gram.
Speaker 4: Miles break a.
Speaker 3: Fresh out of the de fryer. They're reaching temps that
Speaker 3: no one's seen, earning no fresh out the d fryer around,
Speaker 3: straight to the skin of your pre teen Shout out
Speaker 3: to Rayzac on the discord, because yeah, we're talking about
Speaker 3: those McDonald's nuggies burning that child.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Four four is uh I guess, definitely preteen.
Speaker 3: They're pre four years. You got a rhyme with no
Speaker 3: one seen, you know when you say prech attendee, I
Speaker 3: don't know. I'm not here to workshop, but I like it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I just refer to my kids as preteens. Now me too,
Speaker 3: my baby. Have you got a kid?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Preteen?
Speaker 1: Oh? Really three and a half months? You go, hey,
Speaker 1: it's technically true. Why you want to know so much
Speaker 1: about my kid?
Speaker 3: Huh? This? Who's this guy? What are you the cops?
Speaker 3: What are you a fucking cop? What are you asking
Speaker 3: about my kid? What is real? Age is? Don't worries
Speaker 3: a preteen? Move on?
Speaker 1: Uh, miles. We're a thrilled to be joined by an
Speaker 1: award winning writer, investigative journalist, podcaster, so you know from
Speaker 1: her Peabody nominated work on This Land, her investigative climate
Speaker 1: podcast Drilled. Please welcome back to the show on a
Speaker 1: four year cycle, Amy Western.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for that intro.
Speaker 1: But before we started recording, we were talking about you
Speaker 1: were last on May twenty second, twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2: Crazy Yeah, yeah, I can't believe it.
Speaker 1: Fact you're like the Olympics and presidential elections, just everything
Speaker 1: the world cup drop some Westervelt on rs exactly what's that?
Speaker 3: What's okay? Catch us up in the last four years since?
Speaker 3: Are good? Right things?
Speaker 2: What's what's happened lately? Yeah? Oh my god, well, I
Speaker 2: I guess the big new thing is that I live
Speaker 2: in Costa Rica.
Speaker 3: Now you what I mean?
Speaker 2: Huanacosta, Okay, yeah, on the Pacific coast. It's nice.
Speaker 3: Yes, I actually got married there.
Speaker 4: You did?
Speaker 2: Where in hako Oh is really nice?
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah, yeah yeah because my aunt. My aunt
Speaker 3: is Costa Rican. So I've been going there since I
Speaker 3: was a kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got it. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 3: but she's from me, She's from the Atlantic, you know
Speaker 3: where the black people are at.
Speaker 2: I still haven't been to Limon yet. I really want
Speaker 2: to go.
Speaker 3: Oh it's dope. It's dope.
Speaker 2: It's so amazing and the history is so interesting and like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I just yeah, I want to go.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yes, living there, do you feel like you are
Speaker 1: sixty percent less stressed out? That's yeah, Like that's how
Speaker 1: I feel every time I leave in America.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I work on all the same stuff. I'm
Speaker 2: still immersed in all of the like crazy politics and
Speaker 2: climate stuff and all of it, but it's like the
Speaker 2: context really helps.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, especially in a country too that is like
Speaker 3: trying to do right by their own and like part
Speaker 3: patch of Earth, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like my kids are in school here and they had,
Speaker 2: like they had the day off a few months ago
Speaker 2: for the day that they celebrate getting rid of their
Speaker 2: military so they'd have money to pay for like health
Speaker 2: care and education. What well, I love this place.
Speaker 1: Never mind, I'm not I'm no longer on board.
Speaker 3: No, they'll send a doctor to you if you like
Speaker 3: live in a remote place to be like, hey, you're
Speaker 3: doing all right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Where they come into my house to get my guns smiles,
Speaker 1: Come on.
Speaker 3: That ship, Jack.
Speaker 1: Wow, that sounds nice. That sounds really nice. Like I
Speaker 1: dream of leaving the US, and then I like part
Speaker 1: of me is like yeah, but then you go somewhere
Speaker 1: and like wherever you go, there you are, and I'd
Speaker 1: be just distressed anywhere else.
Speaker 2: But you can't run away from your problems Jack.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did.
Speaker 1: But like I lived in Ireland for like a few
Speaker 1: months when I was in college, and like I just
Speaker 1: remember getting back and just like the ambient stress level
Speaker 1: of everybody in line at the airport. Yeah, just like
Speaker 1: you can just like sense this, yes, silent, invisible, just
Speaker 1: like anger and energy and yeah, totally.
Speaker 2: I know. Like the longer I go without going back
Speaker 2: to the like when I when I have been here
Speaker 2: for like you know, five or six months without going
Speaker 2: back to the US, and I go back, it's really noticeable.
Speaker 2: It's really like, oh my god, why is everyone such
Speaker 2: an asshole to each other?
Speaker 3: Yes, each other. I think it's just a reflection like
Speaker 3: when you're in a place where the government is actively
Speaker 3: telling you, like we don't give a fuck about you
Speaker 3: or what happens to you. Everyone's just like fuck versus.
Speaker 3: If there's just some semblance of like you know, community
Speaker 3: or responsibility towards each other, that's right. Just you're laid
Speaker 3: back a couple of clicks, it might not be as
Speaker 3: lit like with the consumer goods as maybe the US. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing is you cannot like I went
Speaker 2: to Okay, So last year I was in Guyana reporting
Speaker 2: a story and I hung out with this guy who's
Speaker 2: a like chef. He you know, used to live in
Speaker 2: New York for years and years and was from Guyana.
Speaker 2: Moved back home and he and I were talking about
Speaker 2: the US, and he's like, do you miss it? Like
Speaker 2: you've been gone for a while, now, do you miss
Speaker 2: anything about the US? And I was like, you know,
Speaker 2: the only thing I miss sometimes is the way that
Speaker 2: America like makes it extremely easy to participate in capitalists
Speaker 2: right right, Like occasionally, yes, like that convenience is missed,
Speaker 2: but otherwise not really. I mean it's it's but yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it's you know, everybody is is kind of
Speaker 2: having put in the position of having to fight for scraps,
Speaker 2: and it leads to this really competitive, you know, individualistic. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that is like not healthy for any of us.
Speaker 1: Now you got to hustle to keep your health care,
Speaker 1: that's right. That does something to your central nervous system
Speaker 1: as a human being.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well yeah, yeah. The retail therapy is real.
Speaker 1: Like there's that scene in White Noise, Like there's a
Speaker 1: scene of White Noise where like the family just goes
Speaker 1: to the grocery store to like feel whole again, look
Speaker 1: at the colors and like let them wash over them.
Speaker 1: And that is real to me, Like I I love
Speaker 1: a trip to the grocery store and just coast go
Speaker 1: to Maso Menos and get there you know exactly.
Speaker 2: Mega super whatever it is, get it.
Speaker 3: They got it. They got it.
Speaker 2: But like you can get really good food stuff here
Speaker 2: and I don't know whatever, and yeah, you just after
Speaker 2: a while, even with my kids like I have my
Speaker 2: kids are seven and ten, also preteens.
Speaker 3: And actual preteens. Yeah, I think my three and a
Speaker 3: half month year old three and a half month year
Speaker 3: old as well a half month year old. Also.
Speaker 1: Did you hear how judgy she was when she said
Speaker 1: actual our preteens?
Speaker 3: Our Wow, yeah, you're six and four preteens.
Speaker 2: But you were saying the first month or something, they
Speaker 2: were like, can't we just order it on Amazon? And
Speaker 2: I have delivered tomorrow And I'm like, yeah, not a
Speaker 2: thing here, guys. Sorry, you're used to it. But now
Speaker 2: it's like they don't. It doesn't come up.
Speaker 1: How old were they when you guys moved?
Speaker 2: They were five and eight?
Speaker 1: Damn all right, I still got time. I could do it.
Speaker 2: It's quite easy to immigrate to Costrica. I just put
Speaker 2: that out there. They make it very easy in lots
Speaker 2: of different ways.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and look, you know that's the fucking you
Speaker 3: loved that ship out there. And it's funny too, like
Speaker 3: every d I used to, like back when I was
Speaker 3: like years ago, my friends would be like, oh, can
Speaker 3: I go to Costa Rica? Like when you go, I
Speaker 3: want to go with you. Every person that comes with
Speaker 3: me ruined, They're ruined.
Speaker 2: After I went to Like, I had to go to
Speaker 2: a conference last month in the US, and like I
Speaker 2: was on. I was on a bunch of panels, one
Speaker 2: of which was actually like a panel that I organized.
Speaker 2: And I went to lunch beforehand, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I want to walk back from lunch. It's a beautiful day.
Speaker 2: And I totally put aviated my ass into being like
Speaker 2: ten minutes late for my own panel.
Speaker 3: And I was like, what the fuck are you doing?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I know I wanted to walk after lunch.
Speaker 3: Oh here's something you should learn. Yeah, you should learn
Speaker 3: about me. I'm on Tico time.
Speaker 2: So I'm sorry. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And when you were ten minutes late for your own panel,
Speaker 1: your life completely fell apart, right, And.
Speaker 2: That was you know what charming?
Speaker 3: Oh weird?
Speaker 1: So that you can actually just have a good pace
Speaker 1: of life exactly, Yeah, not.
Speaker 3: In my brain. My brain will be like this is it.
Speaker 3: This is the end of my life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, fucking show up. All right, Amy, we're going
Speaker 1: to get to know you a little bit better in
Speaker 1: a moment. First, we're going to tell our listeners a
Speaker 1: couple of the things we're talking about. Uh, we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about the one point five celsius threshold of
Speaker 1: global warming, which we're going to be crossing in the
Speaker 1: next years, the coming days. It'll be like that scene
Speaker 1: in the Social Network where they have the big numbers
Speaker 1: up on the board and then everybody celebrates and Mark
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg threatens to sue somebody. So we're just going to
Speaker 1: talk about the general state of climate with Amy. We're
Speaker 1: also going to get to a fellow, you know, David v.
Speaker 1: Goliaths Amy. You know, Amy takes on the fossil fuel industry,
Speaker 1: tells difficult truths about them that they don't want told. Well,
Speaker 1: there's another David taken on Golias by the name of
Speaker 1: Kirk Cameron, and he has decided to take on Big Librarian.
Speaker 1: So get ready for a sordid tale. All of that
Speaker 1: plenty more. But first, Amy, we do like to ask
Speaker 1: our guests, what is something from your search history?
Speaker 2: Well, this morning I was looking at oil stock prices,
Speaker 2: which I feel like is very on free end of it,
Speaker 2: but like the less expected one from last night, which
Speaker 2: this is embarrassing. I looked at how to make fried
Speaker 2: mac and cheese balls because I had a bunch of
Speaker 2: leftover mac and cheese, which is both gross but also
Speaker 2: delicious really good.
Speaker 3: Yes, well, so just breadcrumbs basically, just.
Speaker 2: You Okay, you roll them into balls and you freeze
Speaker 2: them like you roll leftovers into like little balls. Freeze it.
Speaker 2: Then you cover it in egg and breadcrumbs. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: then pop into hair Fryernila.
Speaker 1: More cheese, coating that thing like a couple cheese.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I was thinking about that, like
Speaker 2: could I wrap a piece of cheese around this before
Speaker 2: I fried?
Speaker 1: Yeah, use the egg as the glue that sticks the
Speaker 1: cheese to it.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you were check in the oil stocks just to
Speaker 1: see how you was doing. Yes, Yes, are you diversified
Speaker 1: because I got X and I got VP y shell baby,
Speaker 1: I got them all.
Speaker 2: So they're all there, They're all there.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: I wanted to see if there was a really big
Speaker 2: ruling in a case I was falling against Exxon, and
Speaker 2: I wanted to see if it was the ruling came
Speaker 2: out against exon. I wanted to see if it impacted
Speaker 2: their stock.
Speaker 3: And it did, so that's why I get. That's why
Speaker 3: you weren't in Zurich this winter when I was looking
Speaker 3: for you on the slopes and let's she.
Speaker 1: Excellent, probably walking home late to this skiing. What is
Speaker 1: something you think is overrated?
Speaker 2: Oh blue sky? The new social media? Yes, go on,
Speaker 2: just old Twitter. It's old Twitter. It's two thousand and eight,
Speaker 2: two thousand an e ish Twitter. And I feel like
Speaker 2: I'm not doing anything that makes me think it will
Speaker 2: end up differently. So yeah. Also, honestly, I feel like
Speaker 2: everyone should just take the opportunity to get the fuck
Speaker 2: off of social media, Like it'll be okay, it'll be okay,
Speaker 2: and like we're all screwing around trying to find a
Speaker 2: cool replacement. But like maybe it's just time to, you know,
Speaker 2: talk to people in real life, touch grass as the
Speaker 2: youths like to say.
Speaker 1: So, where do you find the strangers that you argue with?
Speaker 1: Do you just kind of find this stranger?
Speaker 2: Actually weird, weird little discovery about my corner of Costa
Speaker 2: Rica is a whole bunch of really like random libertarians
Speaker 2: so here in the last few years, including a lot
Speaker 2: of like Alberta Tarsan's billionaires from Canada. So so yes,
Speaker 2: I do come. I come across street to argue with
Speaker 2: not on the street in real life, in my in
Speaker 2: my neighborhood. Sometimes, Yes, that.
Speaker 3: Area is interesting because like flying out of San Jose
Speaker 3: is very different than flying out of Liu Aia. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: like the airport in Lividia feels like Florida. Yes, Like
Speaker 3: when I'm there, I'm like, I'm sorry, where are It's like.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, totally. And then you know Tamarindo, which
Speaker 2: is like the biggest kind of town outside from Liberia
Speaker 2: here is everyone calls it Tama Gringo because it is
Speaker 2: so it's like the whitest town.
Speaker 3: And yeah, yes, good sports, that's what brings me down here.
Speaker 3: Great sports, fishing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there are all these these people and it's
Speaker 2: I had a conversation just last week with someone who
Speaker 2: was saying they were from they were from Alberta, Tarzan Skuy,
Speaker 2: and he was like, I like it here because it's
Speaker 2: because of the freedom. And I was like, oh, you
Speaker 2: know what actually enables that freedom. The normal social safety
Speaker 2: nets are a good day.
Speaker 3: I'm like, how are you with all the vaccine passport
Speaker 3: stuff when Costa Rica was on top of that. Because
Speaker 3: they were on top of.
Speaker 2: That, they were on top of it, and a bunch
Speaker 2: of those people just like couldn't leave the country for
Speaker 2: for like a while because not only was cost Rica
Speaker 2: on top of it, but also you know, other countries
Speaker 2: were asking for for vaccine things too, So yeah, actually
Speaker 2: a bunch of those people were effectively housebound. And that's
Speaker 2: the thing too. They're like, oh, but I didn't get sick,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, yeah, because the rest of the country
Speaker 2: got vaccinated. Dude, that's how it works, right, Yeah. Anyway, Yeah, See,
Speaker 2: it's just like Twitter, but in real life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can have the same arguments and they aren't
Speaker 3: even made up people in your head while you're trying
Speaker 3: to go to sleep in the middle of the night.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what is uh? What something you think is underrated?
Speaker 2: I'm so embarrassed to say this out loud. Birds. I
Speaker 2: fucking love to watch birds go off.
Speaker 1: Birds queen, what amazing birds here. I've heard of these things,
Speaker 1: but I actually haven't. So you're you've got a person
Speaker 1: who's underrating birds here. I've heard of them, but like,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: They're a little flying dinosaurs. They're little flying dinosaurs. How
Speaker 2: dare you?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: I yeah, they're reading, Uh what's the book that's about,
Speaker 1: like the evolution of how they became so beautiful?
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't know. Weirdly, I have, like I rarely
Speaker 2: have an obsession with burbs and yet know nothing about them,
Speaker 2: Like made it as much obsession with bbs. I need
Speaker 2: a T shirt that says I heart Burbs now yes please? Anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I like, I really like them. I like watching them,
Speaker 2: but I know almost nothing about them. Someone asked me, like,
Speaker 2: I had someone visiting the other day and I was like, look,
Speaker 2: it's my favorite yellow bird. And they're like, you mean
Speaker 2: the blah blah blah. I'm like, I don't know what
Speaker 2: it's called. It's like yellow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know yellow bird yellow.
Speaker 1: I love birds, you know, And I'm picturing that conversation
Speaker 1: happening around big bird.
Speaker 3: By the way.
Speaker 1: You're like, I love yellow bird, and they're like big bird.
Speaker 3: You're like, I don't know the.
Speaker 2: Tech whatever you call him.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna I'm not going to hit you with
Speaker 3: the binomial nomenclature here, but I believe it's just yellow bird.
Speaker 1: A damn My Google search how Birds Got So Pretty
Speaker 1: did not did not bring up the book that I
Speaker 1: was thinking of. It's like the Birds Evolution The Evolution
Speaker 1: of Birds by Sarah Hills. How beauty is making science
Speaker 1: the rise of birds. I'll figure it out by the end.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's all about.
Speaker 3: Just you know, they they started.
Speaker 1: It's been a steady arms race like how to be
Speaker 1: most beautiful bird since they started evolving. And it's like, like.
Speaker 2: So humans won't kill them or.
Speaker 1: No, it's not like that's what I always assumed. It
Speaker 1: was like that there must be some you know, survival
Speaker 1: of the fittest, like kill or be killed thing to this,
Speaker 1: and it's just mating and trying to be the sexiest bird.
Speaker 3: To other amazing.
Speaker 1: Ye, I love it. It's all about Yeah, it's all
Speaker 1: about being hot and right. That's also why their songs
Speaker 1: are so beautiful. It has nothing to do with us.
Speaker 1: They don't give a ship yet.
Speaker 2: I feel like you're just talking yourself into loving birds
Speaker 2: more right now.
Speaker 1: No, I actually I was playing playing character of guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah I love birds too. Yeah, it's the one like
Speaker 1: with the bower bird that like builds that immaculate like
Speaker 1: sex throne sexist. The bower bird like builds like goes around,
Speaker 1: gets all these like shiny trinkets and different things like hey, like, hey.
Speaker 3: Check this out.
Speaker 1: This is chick old plastic spoon. Like some of the dances,
Speaker 1: some of the mating dances.
Speaker 3: That they do.
Speaker 1: It's like four dudes will do a mating dance so
Speaker 1: that one of them can mate, and they are like elaborate.
Speaker 3: And that was my One of my favorite Planet Earth
Speaker 3: segments too, was on the one all the different birds
Speaker 3: and like how they were just all getting down and
Speaker 3: then just watching like the disinterested female be like just
Speaker 3: fly away, like.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. The Evolution of Beauty, How Darwin's forgotten theory
Speaker 1: of mate choice shapes the animal world and us by
Speaker 1: Richard oh prum Is.
Speaker 3: Okay, don't even have birds in the title.
Speaker 1: It has birds, Yeah, verbs, urbsburbsumb birds. Well, let's take
Speaker 1: a quick break. We'll come back and talk about some news.
Speaker 4: My favorite Tom Hanks movie, The Burbs, thea Burbs.
Speaker 1: And we're back, and so is this climate change story
Speaker 1: back in the news. It's like enough, we get it,
Speaker 1: am I right?
Speaker 3: I remember telling you after Coachella. After Coachella, Jack I
Speaker 3: was telling you, like, I'm only about good vibes right now, yes, vibes,
Speaker 3: And I didn't want to think about climat change or
Speaker 3: whatever it's called. It's so such a bummer, but yeah, man,
Speaker 3: one and a half degree is celsius is like something
Speaker 3: that stretched me out since I first heard of like
Speaker 3: the concept. You know that the Earth is a degree
Speaker 3: and a half celsius warmer now than it was on
Speaker 3: the back end of the nineteenth century. It's sort of
Speaker 3: like a key indicator of potential runaway climate change, which
Speaker 3: would lead to increased fires and out and storms and
Speaker 3: heat waves and everything we've seen that has been so
Speaker 3: fucking horrific and obviously the key number behind many climate
Speaker 3: summits and negotiations around emissions, and researchers are now saying
Speaker 3: that they expect to see us pass this threshold within
Speaker 3: the next few years, like by twenty twenty seven. They
Speaker 3: think it's going to happen, And they say there's still time,
Speaker 3: and that merely getting to one and a half degree
Speaker 3: celsius doesn't mean that the parish agreement is completely futile.
Speaker 3: It would have to be sustained, a sustained sort of
Speaker 3: increase over twenty years for that to happen. But as
Speaker 3: someone who's constantly freaked the fuck out by the chances
Speaker 3: of again increased terrible weather events, it fills me with
Speaker 3: an impotent rage. Phrase we've been saying quite frequently on
Speaker 3: the show. But yeah, like Amy, as someone that's you're
Speaker 3: very dialed in on this and all of the machinations
Speaker 3: around climate change and climate denial, aside from the fact
Speaker 3: that climate change denial is doing its job, how are
Speaker 3: you feeling about this, this sort of this news.
Speaker 2: It's just it's really frustrated because I feel like, well,
Speaker 2: first of all, I think, okay, I feel like we
Speaker 2: should say that a lot of like a lot of
Speaker 2: the predictions around it happening in the next few years
Speaker 2: are also related to the El Nino, right stuff, And
Speaker 2: so scientists are like, we'll probably cross it and then
Speaker 2: go back, which is good just to you know, give
Speaker 2: people a very tiny sliver of the slight breast of
Speaker 2: the silver lighting. But but yeah, I mean, aside from that,
Speaker 2: every single indication is that we are hurdling towards one
Speaker 2: point five degrees and beyond. I mean, since the Paris
Speaker 2: Climate Agreement, I don't think anyone has actually kept their commitments,
Speaker 2: and we're going the opposite direction on oil and gas development.
Speaker 2: That's just the facts. So, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 2: My personal opinion is that the international climate negotiations process
Speaker 2: has kind of been broken from the beginning. I mean
Speaker 2: there were fossil fuel company is involved in that from
Speaker 2: the jump, I mean, from you know, even before the
Speaker 2: first they call it the Conference of the Parties cop
Speaker 2: which are these like annual global meetings or all of
Speaker 2: the leaders get together and they decide on an agreement.
Speaker 2: Before that, yeah, exactly. Yeah, So before that, in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety two, there was the Real Earth Summit, which is
Speaker 2: where they came up with like, you know, the UN
Speaker 2: Framework for Climate Change and how were they were going
Speaker 2: to bring everyone together to do this? And there were
Speaker 2: oil guys all over that place. They were they helped
Speaker 2: to craft some of the language of the UN framing
Speaker 2: on climate change and really like with the idea of
Speaker 2: you know, we will voluntarily do X, y Z, so
Speaker 2: nobody has to regulate emissions, nobody has to make emissions
Speaker 2: reductions mandatory, any of that. The closest that we ever
Speaker 2: got to doing something that would have that you know,
Speaker 2: had some impact was probably the Kyoto Protocol in the
Speaker 2: mid nineties, which had binding emissions reductions where you had
Speaker 2: to actually you had to actually do something. Since then,
Speaker 2: everything's been voluntary. So you know, in Europe there are
Speaker 2: countries that are being sued for not regulating their oil
Speaker 2: and gas companies to keep them in line with the
Speaker 2: Paris Climate Accord, which is very interesting. There was a
Speaker 2: case last year in the Netherlands where a court ordered
Speaker 2: Shell to like to reduce their missions. They were like,
Speaker 2: you guys actually have to reduce emissions across the board
Speaker 2: around the world from not just your own operations, but
Speaker 2: also the use of your product by like forty percent
Speaker 2: in the next ten years or something like that. So
Speaker 2: there are like things happening outside of the global kind
Speaker 2: of negotiations. But I don't know, I just I feel
Speaker 2: like I kind of think it's time, you know, to
Speaker 2: just kick the fossil fuel industry out of that whole process.
Speaker 2: They've been there the whole time. You know, we're not
Speaker 2: getting any closer to actually doing something, and you know,
Speaker 2: next year's cop is going to be held by the
Speaker 2: United Arab Emirates.
Speaker 1: And is like this is crazy.
Speaker 2: The most fossil fueled of these events to have happened,
Speaker 2: so it's getting worse now.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's covered like it's a solution, like it's a
Speaker 1: possible solution every year, and the people who are on
Speaker 1: the ground are like, it's it's a oil industry trade show.
Speaker 2: It is. It's exactly that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I always talk about too, like how outnumbered
Speaker 3: representatives from countries are versus the fossil fuel industry. There
Speaker 3: are more people here from the fossil fuel industry than
Speaker 3: like countries that are at like right now seeing the
Speaker 3: worst of climate change exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: But then you also have like at the same time
Speaker 2: you have I don't know, we just did the story
Speaker 2: in Guyana, which has me thinking a lot about all
Speaker 2: of this stuff. Because they're Global South country. They had
Speaker 2: no oil industry up until twenty nineteen. So actually the
Speaker 2: last time I was here is when they started their
Speaker 2: oil industry.
Speaker 3: And what's happening time good news.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're now on track to be the number one
Speaker 2: like production zone for exonmobile in the world.
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2: For it to happen that quickly is really unheard of,
Speaker 2: and you know, it's but it's really interesting to talk
Speaker 2: to some of the politicians there because Guyana was like
Speaker 2: a big conservation leader for a long time. They were
Speaker 2: one of the first countries that was sort of like
Speaker 2: paid by polluting countries to preserve their forests and stuff
Speaker 2: like that, and they are like a big eco tourism
Speaker 2: destination all of this stuff. But they're like, we have
Speaker 2: ninety percent of our population on the coast and it
Speaker 2: is that stretch of the coast where ninety percent of
Speaker 2: the population lives is going to be underwater by twenty
Speaker 2: thirty and we don't have the money to do anything
Speaker 2: about that. So we're getting into the oil business. And
Speaker 2: I was just like, man, that is the biggest indictment
Speaker 2: of the international climates like negotiation system that I can
Speaker 2: think of, because like we have put these countries in
Speaker 2: the position of being dependent on oil fucking companies. Yeah
Speaker 2: to adapt to climate change, right. Yeah, So anyway, I'm
Speaker 2: really fun at parties and yeah, I mean I think
Speaker 2: that the thing with one point five is like just
Speaker 2: to give people again, like a tiny bit of I
Speaker 2: don't not necessarily hope, but maybe like fuel to keep going.
Speaker 2: It's just that like it's it every percentage of a
Speaker 2: degree counts, and everything that we do now will have
Speaker 2: an impact on, you know, the viability of the next generation.
Speaker 2: And we're not great as humans are thinking about, you know,
Speaker 2: being a good ancestor to future generations. But we need
Speaker 2: to be because we get there.
Speaker 1: I think other civilizations were good at that. Just what
Speaker 1: this Western hyper consumerist, hyper capitalism version of humanity, which
Speaker 1: is an aberration. It's just a cancer that's taken over
Speaker 1: and spread. But it's totally it is bad at that.
Speaker 1: But there have been you know, long surviving civilizations that we're.
Speaker 2: We're good at it, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the only concept we have of being good ants
Speaker 3: I should be like, well I need to accumulate as
Speaker 3: much wealth now, yes, to let that maybe behind or
Speaker 3: maybe I die with it all in my coffin. I
Speaker 3: don't know. I don't know. But that's like the thinking
Speaker 3: that you think people do now is sort of like
Speaker 3: it's it's a financial future. Yeah, and it's like if
Speaker 3: anything else is too abstract. It's not about like, well
Speaker 3: I can make decisions now, Like to your point, Amy,
Speaker 3: that could can reverberate on some level, right, but it's
Speaker 3: we don't think like that.
Speaker 2: No, No, yeah, exactly, Like a lot of a lot
Speaker 2: of indigenous cultures had that really baked into everything, you know,
Speaker 2: like totally how what we do now will impact this
Speaker 2: water source for future generations and this food source and
Speaker 2: all of that stuff. And I feel like, yeah, the
Speaker 2: world has gotten really far away from, weirdly from the
Speaker 2: sorts of behaviors and practices that are conducive to the
Speaker 2: sustainability of human life. Like we talk about sustainability, you know,
Speaker 2: and it's like, oh, the environment or the trees or
Speaker 2: whatever it. Guess, like all of that is very important
Speaker 2: and we're part of that. But I don't understand the
Speaker 2: like the death wish thing, and I don't think that
Speaker 2: most humans have it. I think we're talking about a
Speaker 2: very specific group of people who make these decisions and
Speaker 2: who and you know, people say things like, well, they're
Speaker 2: you know, that's ridiculous because nobody can escape the impacts
Speaker 2: of climate change. I don't think that's actually true. I think,
Speaker 2: and I don't think that they think it's true. I
Speaker 2: think that you have a bunch of people who are like,
Speaker 2: I'll just get my spaceship, like freakin' Elon Musk is
Speaker 2: on that tip now, you know. It's like Wally right,
Speaker 2: and like bunkers in New Zealand and Costa Rica and
Speaker 2: they'll you.
Speaker 1: Know, they're all buying up beach or like you knows.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So we've we've talked a little bit about like a
Speaker 1: couple of stories in the past few months that have
Speaker 1: made me feel somewhat optimistic are the story of how
Speaker 1: the Netherlands like made like cut emissions across their country
Speaker 1: by like getting rid of cars basically in a lot
Speaker 1: of theirs.
Speaker 2: And it made their cities more pleasant.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's what I wanted to ask you, is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: these are I think the thing that appeals to me
Speaker 1: about these two stories like Paris becoming this like amazing
Speaker 1: bikeable city, the Netherlands doing that after being like just
Speaker 1: traffic choked like the worst versions of American cities, you know,
Speaker 1: very decade within the past like fifty years. And I think, like,
Speaker 1: I think the thing that a problem we have is
Speaker 1: like a lack of imagination, Like what how the solution
Speaker 1: to climate change could be cool and could like create
Speaker 1: a reality that actually, you know, captures your imagination and
Speaker 1: makes the world like a more fun place to be,
Speaker 1: Like they turned that highway into a river beach on
Speaker 1: the river send like in like that fucking rules. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so like yeah, and then there are things like like
Speaker 1: we I think we tend to hear a lot about
Speaker 1: the vicious cycles and not the virtuous cycles when it
Speaker 1: comes to climate. So like I'm just curious, are there
Speaker 1: are there other places where you see people like creating better,
Speaker 1: more sustainable futures that are actually like more fun or yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well honestly, I feel like every single place that
Speaker 2: has done that has has created like a higher quality
Speaker 2: of living as a as a result. I mean I
Speaker 2: live in a country that very much did that, like
Speaker 2: Costa Rica in the seventies, you know, decided not to industrialize,
Speaker 2: well actually to undo a bunch of industrialization that it happened,
Speaker 2: and to really prioritize protecting the ecosystem in a way.
Speaker 2: It's and it's not at all like it forgets about
Speaker 2: humans or something. I feel like that's a trope that
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of a lot of people think
Speaker 2: is true that like you well, a that humans aren't
Speaker 2: part of the environment and that and be that if
Speaker 2: you care about ecosystems, you don't care about humans. But anyway,
Speaker 2: like there's they did a really good job of of
Speaker 2: you know, talking to all of the different types of stakeholders,
Speaker 2: farmers and you know, fishermen and all of these people
Speaker 2: who depended on these resources and figuring out a way
Speaker 2: to protect them and to enable everyone to actually enjoy,
Speaker 2: you know, being in all of these beautiful natural places
Speaker 2: and like it's it's a way better quality of life.
Speaker 2: Like New Zealand too, we actually did a whole season
Speaker 2: on like a legal concept called rights of nature that
Speaker 2: comes from indigenous ideas about kind of how to value
Speaker 2: nature and how to think through any decision that you're
Speaker 2: making through the lens of like what impacts it will
Speaker 2: have on the ecosystem, including humans. But you know kind
Speaker 2: of okay, like let's take a holistic view of what
Speaker 2: it will mean to build this building or build this
Speaker 2: road or whatever. And in New Zealand, they have kind
Speaker 2: of baked that into like a sort of a land
Speaker 2: back movement with First Nations people there. It's fascinating. So
Speaker 2: they restored rights to like a sacred mountain to the
Speaker 2: Maori there, and they kind of gave so the mountain
Speaker 2: has rights, and then the Maori community has the ability
Speaker 2: to protect the mountain's rights because of that, Like they've
Speaker 2: turned what had been a national park that wasn't being
Speaker 2: looked after, like it was full of trash and people
Speaker 2: were kind of dumping on it all the time into
Speaker 2: this really, really beautiful place that has all of these
Speaker 2: you know, cultural centers and language learning classes and it
Speaker 2: has just become like a like a point of pride
Speaker 2: for the local community and also someplace for you know,
Speaker 2: people in the country to come and visit. And like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I just I feel like there's a
Speaker 2: chapter in the most recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report,
Speaker 2: the IBCC report, that was like the most wonky title.
Speaker 2: I think it was called demand growth Scenarios or something
Speaker 2: like that, but the whole point of it was so boring.
Speaker 2: But the whole point of it was like looking at
Speaker 2: these co benefits of like reducing consumption. Basically, it was
Speaker 2: kind of radical for them to say this because it
Speaker 2: was like the most anti capitalist like proposal from this
Speaker 2: panel of scientists, and they were like, actually, if we
Speaker 2: just changed all of these behaviors that are pretty basic.
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, making it easier to get around
Speaker 2: cities on public transport or walking or biking, shifting diets,
Speaker 2: not entirely getting rid of meat, but like just making
Speaker 2: them more plant based, right, you know, like a lot
Speaker 2: of really basic things. They were like, we could actually
Speaker 2: reduce emissions from forty to seventy percent by twenty fifty
Speaker 2: just doing those things, not deploying a new technology, not
Speaker 2: like waiting for someone to come up with a you know,
Speaker 2: giant vacuum that sucks carbon out of the sky, which
Speaker 2: seems to be a lot of people's dream right now,
Speaker 2: you know, and that it has all of these benefits
Speaker 2: for health, for you know, quality of life, for economically
Speaker 2: for people it costs less to live in cities like that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I just I feel like there's this ten
Speaker 2: for the climate movement to kind of constantly just be
Speaker 2: reacting to the oil guys and their friends saying like
Speaker 2: they want to take your hamburgers or like they never
Speaker 2: want you to travel again or whatever. Instead of being like, no,
Speaker 2: we don't. I think the climate people kind of need
Speaker 2: to be like, this is what we're talking about, and
Speaker 2: just yeah, they're framing altogether.
Speaker 3: More bikes, more bikes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like there's a lack of imagination for
Speaker 1: how good, you know, a more sustainable future can be.
Speaker 1: And then there's a lack of imagination for how evil
Speaker 1: and cynical like things actually are. On the corporate side, it's.
Speaker 2: And there's like an over emphasis of how great things
Speaker 2: are in this like hyper capitalism. Like, look around, guys,
Speaker 2: it's not good. You know, do you feel everyone I
Speaker 2: know in the US is super stressed out? No one
Speaker 2: is being made happier by you know, the super fast,
Speaker 2: convenient capital that that's provided.
Speaker 1: More like isolated and cellularized.
Speaker 3: And yeah, the only.
Speaker 1: Thing it's good for is making consumerism like easier.
Speaker 3: It's not good for people. Hyper consumerism is the new
Speaker 3: opioid of the masses.
Speaker 1: Basically, it doesn't even work. And all we're doing is
Speaker 1: just fucking fiending for the next thing.
Speaker 3: And but I have I actually have a proposal that
Speaker 3: can tackle climate change and gun control because the Netherlands,
Speaker 3: you know, it's a good juxtaposition, they got more bikes
Speaker 3: than people over there. Yeah, America got more guns than people.
Speaker 3: What we need to do is convert these guns to bikes. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and now you're taking guns off the street and you
Speaker 3: turn them into bicycles. I think it's win win when
Speaker 3: or you just have to like or like always have
Speaker 3: to market bikes to be like the new fucking pickup
Speaker 3: truck to writ like.
Speaker 1: Tires with spikes on them.
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, And we just need like a cool you know,
Speaker 3: like like Jack, you're referencing Fast and the Furious sort
Speaker 3: of off mic about like how that makes cars look cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's like the win win is the like cooler
Speaker 1: cities to exist in and they're more sustainable, like better
Speaker 1: quality of life and it's sustainable.
Speaker 3: Fast and Furious would be like.
Speaker 1: A win lose where it's like cool movie. It does
Speaker 1: make gas powered cars look really good. Looks makes them
Speaker 1: look too damn cool. So we need more win wins,
Speaker 1: like things that appeal to our imagination.
Speaker 2: And there's a bunch of them out there. It's not
Speaker 2: like it's not like we have to go create a
Speaker 2: bunch of new things. There's like a whole bunch of
Speaker 2: stuff out there that already delivers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, multi wins. Our media does a terrible
Speaker 1: job of covering it, right.
Speaker 3: It's also it's so interesting too, like if we just
Speaker 3: had protected bike lanes through intersections like that would even help,
Speaker 3: Like I feel like especially in La yeah, because that's
Speaker 3: where people get hit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and all I feel like.
Speaker 3: Just incrementally be like, you know what, we're going to
Speaker 3: turn up to intersections a little bit so that the
Speaker 3: bike lanes are protected. I'm sure so many more people
Speaker 3: would ride bikes, like myself included, because in La some
Speaker 3: of these intersections. Man, you're just it's like it's a miracle.
Speaker 3: How there's like a just a rapidly increasing like number
Speaker 3: of fucked up bike v. Car accidents.
Speaker 1: Yeah, London has like built a bunch of like separate
Speaker 1: bike paths, like they're like completely separate and like go
Speaker 1: around go around intersections, and yeah, they look cool and
Speaker 1: they're I don't know, man, yeah, there there are we
Speaker 1: I just think there's a hopelessness because they we aren't
Speaker 1: given the proper like imaginative ballast to like create the
Speaker 1: solutions in our own minds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to think that the solutions are like fees
Speaker 2: of there's such a like defeatism, I think, yeah, in
Speaker 2: the face of like, yeah, all of the corporate control
Speaker 2: and you know, corrupt government stuff and whatever, but you
Speaker 2: do see it like at the city and state level, Yeah,
Speaker 2: things can happen and so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like Denver had a great like e bike
Speaker 3: program that was so popular and yeah, you know that's
Speaker 3: been a boon for them, and I just think like
Speaker 3: if you have to like even start smaller, like during
Speaker 3: the like in the initial parts of the pandemic, I
Speaker 3: was really into this web series called Drum and Bass
Speaker 3: on the Bike and it was this guy who basically
Speaker 3: he's like a DJ, but rigged up speakers and like
Speaker 3: a turntable set up to his bicycle and just rode
Speaker 3: around blasting drum and bass. And it just grew to
Speaker 3: like hundreds of people all on bikes just vibing out
Speaker 3: to music. But on bike was that in La No,
Speaker 3: it's in England, Like start off in London and then
Speaker 3: then you would be like, yo, I'm going to be
Speaker 3: in Brighton, I'm going to be in Manchester, I'm being Liverpool, whatever,
Speaker 3: and people just will come out just to like first
Speaker 3: just kind of vibe because everybody felt so separated. But
Speaker 3: I was like, this is genius on another level because
Speaker 3: it's not so much about like we're doing the right
Speaker 3: thing by the environment or whatever, but like getting people
Speaker 3: really into the idea of like getting together being on
Speaker 3: bikes and just having like a really good time with that.
Speaker 3: And I feel like that's kind of like my fast
Speaker 3: and furious of like biking that I see and I'm
Speaker 3: like more bad and that.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and we need that. Like I always whenever people
Speaker 2: ask me like about anything that gives me like optimism
Speaker 2: on the climate front, it's always community stuff. It's always
Speaker 2: like any like community action because like, a we need
Speaker 2: that as like in the US in particular, like really
Speaker 2: needs to sort of like figure out community.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: And then and then on top of that, it's also
Speaker 2: like it's also how you're going to survive climate change,
Speaker 2: you know, like as as we deal with more and
Speaker 2: more extreme weather events, like you need to you need
Speaker 2: to have neighbors that you can count on, like you
Speaker 2: need to live in community with other people, and we
Speaker 2: have got to figure that shit out. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think Americans tend to who haven't been through a
Speaker 1: crisis or a climate crisis or a hurricane, you know,
Speaker 1: glued to their screens watching the other people, and they're like,
Speaker 1: I bet there's looting crews going around. I would shoot
Speaker 1: them so hard. And then people who are actually in
Speaker 1: the crisis are like helping each other out, and like
Speaker 1: this was actually really cool, Like I learned a lot.
Speaker 3: About my neighbors and like I really respect them.
Speaker 2: A lot more exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I just I think it was a podcast
Speaker 1: that I was listening to that you were on the
Speaker 1: mention that Amy Cony Barrett's dead is a longtime shell exactly.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: Like, so that's number two.
Speaker 1: Like, so we learned that Brett Kavanaugh's dad was like
Speaker 1: the lobbyist who made it possible for Johnson and Johnson
Speaker 1: to continue to sell baby powder even though it was
Speaker 1: like obviously giving people cancer and right, it's just.
Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing. And Alito Justice Alito has stock and Conicco Phillips.
Speaker 1: That's another one, Like do they pick these people out
Speaker 1: to be Supreme Court justices when they were kids? Are
Speaker 1: they just like yeah, they got the agree like pro
Speaker 1: oil pro they find them when they're preteens. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: is I cynical and complex and it's wild that like
Speaker 1: there there isn't more made of that.
Speaker 2: Also, I know it's really it's.
Speaker 3: The bad guy. It's really bad.
Speaker 1: The good positive solutions could be really fun and yeah,
Speaker 1: it gets ignored.
Speaker 2: A lot, yeah, which it's true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let's take a quick break, we'll come back,
Speaker 1: we'll talk Kirk camera, we'll be right back, and we're back,
Speaker 1: and we're back, and Kirk Cameron is back in all
Speaker 1: of our minds and hearts. So who's trending? I think
Speaker 1: it was last week. Not because there's a new entry
Speaker 1: in the Left Behind Cinematic Universe, so though we're all
Speaker 1: waiting on the edge of our seats for that, but
Speaker 1: due to an o An interview in which he ranted
Speaker 1: about how public schools are quote killing God from his home,
Speaker 1: which features a barn with a giant crucifix entryway, Like
Speaker 1: just the whole side of the barn is a a
Speaker 1: crucifix hole that you then like walk through to get through.
Speaker 3: And I hate to be I hate to I hate
Speaker 3: to take it to Bible school again like I did
Speaker 3: yesterday with the goods American thing. But that's that's just
Speaker 3: a cross. It's not a crucifix. Yeah, of Christ on
Speaker 3: the Cross. I'm sorry, and I'm sorry Christ. I'm sorry. Christ.
Speaker 3: Do not smite this podcast.
Speaker 1: But it's just so impractical, Like it must be so
Speaker 1: hard to keep that like warm in the winter time.
Speaker 3: It looks like if the kool aid man was Christian
Speaker 3: and he busted through your barn, He's like, oh yeah,
Speaker 3: like the shape it was just like a very jit cross.
Speaker 1: It's like a two to three story tall hole in
Speaker 1: the side of his barn.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But since the end of twenty twenty two, he has
Speaker 1: been actively promoting his new book, As You Grow, which
Speaker 1: huh sounds harmless enough. I think we can give it
Speaker 1: a pass yep, but that as that might indicate this
Speaker 1: motherfucker is still using growing pains puns. It's about a
Speaker 1: tree and how those of us who don't believe in
Speaker 1: God will burn for all eternity.
Speaker 3: Hell yeah.
Speaker 1: The description on Amazon boasts that it was written by
Speaker 1: the Ledge Dairy Kirk Camera Legend, Legen Legion like fucking
Speaker 1: mt We've talked about the publisher Brave Books before. They're
Speaker 1: trying to like create a right wing marvel cinematic universe
Speaker 1: for children like children books like all the books are
Speaker 1: set in a magical land of freedom.
Speaker 3: Island is shockingly unfree. You will be.
Speaker 1: Surprised to learn their locations such as car A Lago Coast,
Speaker 1: car A Lago.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: There's also a place called Wigamore Woods. What's Wigamore is
Speaker 3: that for like the white people who think they're black,
Speaker 3: like all the wiggers hang out over there. That might
Speaker 3: they might have that in their books. I don't know,
Speaker 3: some must all these Okay, whatever, cool, let's go to
Speaker 3: Freedom Island.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's talking animals and conservative buzzwords, and that seems
Speaker 1: to be about it. But so he was making headlines
Speaker 1: last year when his book launched, claiming that he has
Speaker 1: been banned from holding readings of his book by woke
Speaker 1: public libraries. Huh, because first of all, is there anyone
Speaker 1: anyone more victimized than white Christian former TV stars trying
Speaker 1: to promote their latest vanity project, Like, oh absolutely, it's
Speaker 1: so hard for them. And also, is there a scarier
Speaker 1: villain than librarians?
Speaker 3: I mean that you Encounts on Human Rights talked about
Speaker 3: this about how the problem white Christian former TV stars
Speaker 3: are really really we really need to bring more attention
Speaker 3: to their plight.
Speaker 1: They're protected group. But his war with librarians mainly is
Speaker 1: him piggybacking on all the bigotry and hate directed at
Speaker 1: drag Queen's story hours using it to promote his book
Speaker 1: are doing that Books featuring l g B t Q
Speaker 1: plus characters are terrifying and a step towards totalitarianism.
Speaker 2: Wow, not like not like burning and banning books that's
Speaker 2: not a step towards.
Speaker 3: The I don't see any historical reference point for that
Speaker 3: that would make sense at all. This is what he's
Speaker 3: probably saying, Yeah, toward totalitarian acceptance.
Speaker 1: Yes, he denied that he's just trying to make headlines
Speaker 1: and sell his book and claimed that librarians were starting
Speaker 1: a war with him.
Speaker 2: Librarian said, who is Kirk Cameron?
Speaker 3: Yes? Wait, so how did they start this war? Because
Speaker 3: they people drove to his house and threw dog shit
Speaker 3: on his door and said, don't fuck with the library.
Speaker 3: I mean the fact that the hole that his door
Speaker 3: is a giant cross shaped hole would make it super
Speaker 3: easy to throw dog shit in there. But yeah, he So.
Speaker 1: His version of wade them waging war on him is
Speaker 1: that he asked for and he didn't just ask for
Speaker 1: like a slot to read his books to kids at
Speaker 1: the libraries, and his agencies email the libraries. They mentioned
Speaker 1: that Cameron also wanted to lecture children about the quote
Speaker 1: harmful effects of woke ideology, specifically critical race theory and
Speaker 1: the transgender agenda.
Speaker 2: Transgender, the transgender.
Speaker 3: What the fuck? It's like, it's so obvious, like he's
Speaker 3: just drafting off of like the culture warship for.
Speaker 1: Him, but that that letter was specifically written to like
Speaker 1: outrage the people who get box. And then there was
Speaker 1: libraries like one in Providence, Rhode Island very politely declined
Speaker 1: the offer because they are They were like, hey, we're
Speaker 1: like super queer friendly and that like your messaging just
Speaker 1: like would not align with the community.
Speaker 3: Whoa and what so yeah what words of war fighting words?
Speaker 3: Messaging does not quite align?
Speaker 2: Is the library really called Rochambeau?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Wow, I love that.
Speaker 2: It's amazing.
Speaker 3: Okay, so that was that was the That was the
Speaker 3: killing of the Archduke Franz Ferdinand. Yes, little prince hip,
Speaker 3: So then tell me, tell me how the invasion of Poland.
Speaker 1: I think I'm mixing my World War II eyes up.
Speaker 3: But yeah.
Speaker 1: Another library received Cameron's request in New York and responded
Speaker 1: to the message by and like, try try to remain
Speaker 1: calm as you hear this act of aggression, sending a
Speaker 1: link to the online application for presenting a library program.
Speaker 3: What the fuck?
Speaker 1: They're like, Oh, you want to read at our library? Oh?
Speaker 1: Just like here, here's where's the form, which they do
Speaker 1: to every request of this type. And the publisher did
Speaker 1: not submit an application oh, censorship. Yes, And then so
Speaker 1: he sent a letter about the transgender agenda, the transgender.
Speaker 3: And thank you, thank you jfkgenda.
Speaker 1: And the library declined extremely politely, and Kirk Cameron threatened
Speaker 1: legal action. No, and the library director directed them to
Speaker 1: a request for a room rental.
Speaker 3: Okay, do it in fine, you can have access to
Speaker 3: the library, but just do it in your own little room.
Speaker 2: Of This is the thing that is like pissing me
Speaker 2: off the most about all of these these guys being like,
Speaker 2: I'm my free speech rights are being you know, curtailed
Speaker 2: or whatever, Like, no one guarantees you an audience, bro,
Speaker 2: That is not what the First Amendment says, speech, not
Speaker 2: free reach. Like, get a grip. I don't understand it.
Speaker 2: I thought they all had pocket constitutions they should read them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that is that's what they want. That's what
Speaker 1: Elon Musk wants. Ye'll keep firing people until every one
Speaker 1: of his tweets gets to every Twitter more traction than
Speaker 1: the supermom.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: But so he he did that, then booked the room,
Speaker 1: but then complained, and this is like a subtle form
Speaker 1: of warfare. Complained because his event wasn't on the website calendar,
Speaker 1: even though a Plato playdate was.
Speaker 2: Come on. Plato play date is like a is like
Speaker 2: a headline event for a library.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's the Night of Long Knives. I feel
Speaker 1: like that's like promoting the Plato playdate. So in March,
Speaker 1: he appeared at a Brave Books library, reading with other
Speaker 1: illustrious children's authors such as Jack Pasobiac, Oh my God,
Speaker 1: Sean Spicer, the Lips of TikTok person, and like twenty
Speaker 1: people showed up and crew and they were like apparently
Speaker 1: really embarrassed by that. I'm like, for twenty people for children?
Speaker 3: Wait when was the book reading? I don't know. It
Speaker 3: was like looks like it was ten thirty am on
Speaker 3: a Wednesday.
Speaker 2: Right, oh Wednesday morning. Yeah, weren't they in school?
Speaker 1: Yeah, children were in school, but they were taking out
Speaker 1: twenty children and twenty five adults showed up.
Speaker 3: What the plan it? Do you even know the concept
Speaker 3: of your audience?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: Where are they? There are in their mind they're all
Speaker 3: being homeschooled because they're not getting indoctrinated with the woke
Speaker 3: ideology in public schools or something. Sure, great, great time y.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they again, it's the free speech not free
Speaker 1: reach point, that's a that's a great saying, they say.
Speaker 2: Exactly, Like, I just I don't know every single time
Speaker 2: someone is like, but my idea is should have a
Speaker 2: large audience.
Speaker 1: No people don't like them though, Yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, your whole thing is you hate pizza, exactly like
Speaker 3: your audience. You just I don't know who the fuck
Speaker 3: I'm being surpressed? Yeah, just because everything I'm saying is
Speaker 3: so wildly unpopular. Why won't it catch on?
Speaker 2: Exactly?
Speaker 3: It worked for me. But then it's like always funny
Speaker 3: because you think these people are like it worked for Hitler, right,
Speaker 3: why can't it was killing it doing the same material
Speaker 3: right now? Yeah, no one likes it? What the fuck
Speaker 3: is this? But it's true.
Speaker 1: Everybody has a persecution complex, like including like NBA players,
Speaker 1: Like everybody like thinks because because it's like an optical
Speaker 1: illusion created by our attention economy where you like hear
Speaker 1: every bad thing that is ever said about you, and
Speaker 1: your brain only hears the bad things and not the
Speaker 1: good things, and so everybody thinks they're being persecuted. And yeah,
Speaker 1: the right is probably the biggest defender. Yeah, good luck
Speaker 1: to you, because they do actually suck as opposed to
Speaker 1: Joe LMB, who a lot of people like, but like
Speaker 1: one guy says he sucks and he's like nobody believed
Speaker 1: in me from the jut right actually sucks at what
Speaker 1: they're doing. So they're probably hearing a lot more of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, Amy, it's been such a pleasure having
Speaker 1: you on the daily Zeikegeist.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me again. I'll see
Speaker 2: you guys in four years four.
Speaker 1: Type four later. Where can people find you? Follow you
Speaker 1: all that good stuff I have?
Speaker 2: Let's see a bunch of stuff on drilled dot media.
Speaker 2: That's where like the podcast and related writings and stuff are.
Speaker 2: I also write regularly for The Guardian and The Intercept
Speaker 2: and then I am on Twitter still at Amy Westervelt.
Speaker 3: There you go.
Speaker 1: And is there a work of media that you've been enjoying?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, have you guys seen I know that,
Speaker 2: Like we were talking about the writer's strike and how
Speaker 2: you know it's a bummer that all the TV channels
Speaker 2: are switching to like nonscripted reality TV. But have you
Speaker 2: seen Jury Duty?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: My god, it's so good.
Speaker 3: I love.
Speaker 2: No no.
Speaker 1: About son in law?
Speaker 3: Yeah, now, dude, biodome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jury Duty killed me.
Speaker 3: The streaming shows, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, yes, it's so good. I thought it was
Speaker 2: so good and also like, yeah, just just sort of
Speaker 2: like endearing and very watchful. So yeah, that's the thing
Speaker 2: I binged most.
Speaker 1: Recently, Miles Where can people find you? Is there a
Speaker 1: work of media you've been enjoying.
Speaker 3: At based web sites at Miles of Gray. If you
Speaker 3: like basketball talk and you want to hear more about
Speaker 3: Jack Sad NBA, can check us out on our NBA podcast,
Speaker 3: Miles and Jack got Mad Boosties or Sad Boosties in
Speaker 3: this week's episode. And if you like ninety day Fiance,
Speaker 3: catch me and Sophia Alexandra out on our ninety day
Speaker 3: show for twenty Day Fiance. It's amazing a couple of
Speaker 3: meets I like because we were talking about you know,
Speaker 3: AI or and then the workers strike. This one is
Speaker 3: from Carl Sharro at Carl Remarks tweeted, humans doing the
Speaker 3: hard jobs on minimum wage while the robots write poetry
Speaker 3: and paint is not the future I wanted. Yeah that
Speaker 3: felt real, real, Yeah that was spot on. And then
Speaker 3: Taylor K Phillips at Take k Phillips tweeted, literally, no
Speaker 3: one understands something more completely than a woman in a
Speaker 3: meeting who starts a question with so just so I
Speaker 3: understand Yeah, turns out yeah, yeah, totally amazing.
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien
Speaker 1: tweet I've been enjoying at marxist in five to one three?
Speaker 1: Is that Dayton Ohio.
Speaker 3: The five to one three tweeted.
Speaker 1: Just screencap of an article that said, these entitled millennials
Speaker 1: are cheering for a housing market crash. Millennials are actually
Speaker 1: cheering for a housing market crash on Twitter so they
Speaker 1: can afford a home. It seems the very image of entitlement.
Speaker 1: And you just tweeted gaslight me, daddy, you're entitled because
Speaker 1: you want to be able to afford a house at
Speaker 1: some point in your life.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, uh huh yeah.
Speaker 3: This is like this kind of goes in line with
Speaker 3: a lot a lot of things I've heard so many
Speaker 3: are read more articles like millennials are actually doing better
Speaker 3: than gen X and boom yeah mm hmm. And you're like,
Speaker 3: just because the dollar amounts are like higher in certain respects,
Speaker 3: like I'm sorry, okay, sure, let's go on.
Speaker 1: At this stage after like a decade of like hyper inflation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I tried to.
Speaker 2: I just have a chart that I have to show
Speaker 2: my bloomer mom like once a year to remind her that,
Speaker 2: like where shows, Yeah, like cost of living in wages.
Speaker 2: I'm like, see that gap, See how the gap cames growing?
Speaker 2: You know, she's like whoa, because every time I see her,
Speaker 2: she's like, I don't understand what people we were extended.
Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, it almost seems like an unbelievable reality
Speaker 3: to be in, right from your perspective, that's what?
Speaker 1: Yes, all right, Well, you can find me on Twitter
Speaker 1: at Jack Underscore Obrian. You can find us on Twitter
Speaker 1: at daily Zegeist. We're at the Daily Zekeeist on Instagram.
Speaker 1: We have a Facebook fan page or website daily zekeist
Speaker 1: dot com where we post our episodes and our footnope
Speaker 1: or we link off to the information that we talked
Speaker 1: about today's episode, as well as the song we think
Speaker 1: you might enjoy, Miles, is there a song that you
Speaker 1: think people might enjoy?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just listening to this rapper from from
Speaker 3: the UK, bro jambo j I, a n b O
Speaker 3: Chinese Vietnamese British rapper with like a prime style. This
Speaker 3: this track is called monkowk Madness m O n g
Speaker 3: Kok Madness Uh and it's just dope. Get into it.
Speaker 3: Uh Jambo coming at you well.
Speaker 1: The Daily zeitgeis is production of by Heart Radio. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio app Apple Podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 1: That is going to do it for us this morning,
Speaker 1: back this afternoon to tell you what is trending and
Speaker 1: we will talk to you all then Bye bye bye